Interesting Gulf War News

[sarah_yzma]

yes i fully support US Australia, and the 34 other countries in the war!!! yee-haw!

No it is not US against Iraq it is the whole UN except a few cough cough....

Sarah

 

[frogboy4]

That is a very good point. Much of the rhetoric these days makes it seem like only America is fighting this war when that is not the case.

 

[tomahawk]

Originally posted by sarah_yzma
yes i fully support US Australia, and the 34 other countries in the war!!! yee-haw!

No it is not US against Iraq it is the whole UN except a few cough cough....

Sarah

so yee-haw! is the new war cry? hmmmmm makes as much sense as freedom fries.

 

[frogboy4]

I think they should call fries what they really are: fried carbs. Although I don't think many people would order them. The frogboy doesn't do taters. LOL! Viva freedom fries anyway - for whatever it's worth.

 

[Tera]

I finally have the time to put my two cents (or more) in. I am against this war, even though its already started.

I have many reasons why, but I think some of the ones that are most relevant and haven't already been discussed enough are:

1) I makes NO sense to go to war because someone is 'defying UN Security Council resolutions' without support of the UN. A majority of experts in international law think this war is illegal under the UN Charter and international law. Bush brings up the UN when it supports him, and claims its irrelevant when other countries have the gall to disagree with him.

from Pacifica radio: "It is the height of hypocrisy for the U.S. and U.K. to base war on Resolution 1441 when they are fully aware that France, Russia and China approved that resolution on explicit written condition that it could not be used by individual states to justify military action," said CESR Executive Director Roger Normand, who recently returned from a fact-finding mission to Iraq.

Even U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan said this action is 'not legitimate', even thought he wasn't willing to come out and call it illegal.

(I have to digress and point out here that some of the countries listed by Bush in the 'coalition of the willing' were darn surprized to find their names on there. Colombia's foreign minister didn't know they were willing until CNN told them they were.)

2) We support dictators and human rights abuses all around the world. Until we stop training and arming people like Saddam Hussein, our government is supporting terrorism. We could do so much more for the safety of our nation and the world by cutting off military aid to dictators and trying to create a just peace in Israel/Palestine and other locations that breed terrorists than we ever can by sacrificing the lives of American and allied soldiers.

3) Not to be cynical, but FOLLOW THE MONEY! Nine companies have been requested to put in bids for rebuilding Iraq. These companies, collectively, have given millions of dollars to get Bush elected in the first place. If that isn't enough of a link to make you suspicious or appalled, one of the contracts - having to do with oil well rebuilding, I believe - has already gone to Halburton. That's $900 million for the company Dick Cheney was president of until he became VP.


(stepping down off soapbox)

I can only hope that John Cleese continues to write about all this - that post really made me laugh

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Okay, so it's a book, but here goes...

Gprime1 sez: “but the fact is the US had that opporunity 12 years ago and they didn't follow through with it.”

I wondered about that at first, too; but, then I thought about it. It’s kinda like how mama says, “Here’s the rule, straighten up!” and when you don’t, she takes out the belt and says, “Pants down, bend over!” OWWWww!!

MuppetsRule said that the politics of the world change based on current events, and that is so. Suppose 12 years ago Saddam DID follow through with what he was supposed to do, he stayed out of Kuwait and destroyed his weaponry as ordered. None of this would be going on now, would it? It’s all on his shoulders. He’s been asked and asked, and still he maintained lies and deceit and ultimately this is where we’re at.

Not to mention that any aid we’ve ever sent over there he confiscated and had re-routed to himself. Then he calls the US and its allies demons?

Other Axis of Evil Wannabes by John Cleese
Is there anybody funnier than this man? I think not!! LOL!!

Terry Jones makes a valid point. But, I think (from the sound of things) that he doesn’t agree in what’s going on simply because the threat is there and maybe “we’re paranoid”? I don’t understand folks against this idea, because the other option is to wait and let them bomb us before we act? That’s like waiting on the bully to beat us up before we run for cover!

Frogboy sed: “That being said, I think the past two comic editorials were a responsible and respectful way of making views known without forcing the issue.”

This brings me to note a question: Has anybody ever heard of the Cartoonist Rights Network? It is an organization designed to create bail for and save lives of persecuted Cartoonists in other countries. In 2001 the Mid-South Cartoonists Association held an October art show to benefit the release of Essam Hanafy (in Egypt). (photos are here, including the man who we were sponsoring that has been imprisoned for his political cartoon: http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=407634&uid=121440 ). My point here is that cartoonists are REALLY under fire in those countries, including in South America and Russia. The CRN has a new Yahoo! Message Board you can check out: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CartoonistRightsNetwork

There’s also a cool Link at MSCA’s website about Beetle Bailey!!

Back to the Gulf…

Froggy sed: “I also think people are hiding behind the guise of peace with ulterior motives. One just has to walk through a “peace” protest (riot) in San Francisco to get what I mean. Picket signs with anti-Semitic statements, signs that focus on Bush as a person instead of his effect on the war, even signs saying Bush is an alien for cripes’ sake. What is that? “
It doesn’t seem to me that the protesters actually have a valid argument, just like the lady on the phone with the radio station that I mentioned in a previous post couldn’t explain to the Iraqi man how to resolve this situation any more peacefully than has been attempted over the past years.

CraigD up-n-spoke: “You seem to be forgetting about the other countries involved as your allies, notably my country Australia.”

Not me; I try to make sure I mention our allies—however, the statement I try to make is for my opinion in the support of what the President is doing and defend (against other Americans strangely enough) our country’s decision to go against Iraq. When I fail to mention the allies, it isn’t because I don’t recognize or appreciate them, because I do; it’s just that I am still confused why Americans aren’t behind this decision and why those against it haven’t been able to offer up other alternatives to the strong possibility that the USA (or other closer countries) wouldn’t be pounded by Iraq with warfare later.

*Whew!* My fingers are tired!!

Kev

 

[tomahawk]

Tera,

That was brilliant! I too was going to bring up the Halliburton thing but you beat me to it. Another thing that people aren't realizing is how much money all of Bush's oil buddies are making just on the gas hike alone. Remember the Bush family is also big oil.

So the war has started and the first words I hear about the attack are unexpected timing, hastily put together at the last minute due to intelligent info on where saddam was hanging out. Well as of this morning it looks like we have a new Osma Bin Laden senario going on, is he alive or dead? Did we get him? In my opinion this will not be short and swift.

 

[radionate]

Re: Other Axis of Evil Wannabes by John Cleese

Originally posted by frogboy4
(Reprinted after Nate sent it to me. Thank, Nate. I don't think he wanted to get political, but we all have room for Cleese!)

Since it made people laugh. I'll step up and take credit for it.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Tera (firma, get it?) says: “I makes NO sense to go to war because someone is 'defying UN Security Council resolutions' without support of the UN.”

And other than war, your suggestion to protect ourselves from further terrorist activity which Saddam openly supports or from having Saddam himself bomb us is what? Let them bomb us first and THEN ask permission?

“Colombia's foreign minister didn't know they were willing until CNN told them they were.”

Where did you hear that?

“We support dictators and human rights abuses all around the world. Until we stop training and arming people like Saddam Hussein, our government is supporting terrorism. We could do so much more for the safety of our nation and the world by cutting off military aid to dictators and trying to create a just peace in Israel/Palestine and other locations that breed terrorists than we ever can by sacrificing the lives of American and allied soldiers.”

100% agreeable!! I also think we should begin asking for repayment from the other countries that owe us money because I’m being taxed to death! I also think ‘to heck with rebuilding Iraq.’ Heck, we can’t even afford to fix our own highway potholes, much less rebuild a country which hates us regardless whether we help them or despise their weaponry against us.

Still, I see anti-Republican statements, yet not responses on an alternative to what’s going on.

You also harp on the oil-well rebuilding. Well, perhaps it isn’t for the reason you anti-republicans think? Perhaps it’s because our President realizes that this is the only source of real income the people of Iraq have?

I’m seeing closed-minded thinking in this thread with no other alternative options offered and no ideas.

Tomahawk, Terra, and others that share their sentiment: The question I want answered is “Do you think we should have just stayed out of it while a dictator who openly supports Bin Laden’s terrorism continues to build weapons of mass destruction to use against other countries NOT for retaliation but as an aggressor and/or to sell (or give) to the terrorists?” If so, why? If not, “What alternative suggestions could you offer up that would have been politically realistic and get Saddam to destroy his weaponry, per the agreements from 12 years ago?” Also, “Is it because the President is Republican that you don’t support our activity? Had it been the other guy you wanted to see be President in the same situation having made the same decision to attack, what would your stance on that be then?”

C’mon, it’s valid questions that nobody will answer up to. It’s only opinion, anyways, so share!

I also had no idea that the Bush’s owned anything to do with oil.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Re: Re: Other Axis of Evil Wannabes by John Cleese

Originally posted by radionate
Since it made people laugh. I'll step up and take credit for it.

John Cleese is classic, man! Love that guy!!