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Well I mean that's where the debate ends really, you see the performance one way and others see it another. End of story. :) And I admire the efforts of the people behind the Muppets to continue the work all these years. But the fact remains the Muppets have steadily gone down in popularity...

But answer the question, how in the world did they get popular when they weren't seasoned professionals? Yes the Muppets hit their big stride in the '70s with The Muppet Show. But the Muppets were popular for Washington DC locals on Sam and Friends and frequently reinvited on The Ed Sullivan...

Well then how do we explain how the Muppets became so successful? They didn't start out as seasoned professionals. That's all I'm saying. Disney should be concerned with producing good stories and good presentations of the characters, not how polished it all looks. Disney has been criticized...

Well that's a matter of opinion. Though I agree, the Joker was very good. ;) And there have been a number of movies with excellent production quality that completely bombed, because overall the story wasn't good. It's not all about having the best of everything production wise. And I'm not...

Obviously I'm not arguing that, heh. I'm saying there's more to being a good performer than just being perfect all the time. Should they go back and redo Rocky and Bullwinkle so the animation looks better? No, because it didn't need to be the best drawings to be the best show overall. I'm...

I've said that about Steve's early performances and I've said it about Jim's. That doesn't mean I think they're bad, quite the contrary. It's not black and white like that. I said this earlier in another thread but the Muppets were pretty "rough" in their early days on TV too. Yet they were...

I shouldn't even contribute since this is all rumor and speculation, lol. But you know even if this rumor was somewhat accurate, there's nothing wrong with someone asking for more money. I mean these are hard economic times. I wouldn't call someone a "diva" for it. But I can see it happening...

Ok that's fair, I shouldn't generalize. :) I don't think this guy was that bad. Yes the puppetry seemed beginner. No the voice wasn't perfect. But it some ways it was like hearing Jim again for me (and for others on the Internet that have commented). I grew up with Jim and that's Kermit for...

Oh it's OK to critique him, that's fine. But then saying "this guy is like an early Jim performance"? That's criticizing Jim Henson. I won't do that. ;)

Well no offence guys, but we're criticizing this new guy's performance, make it clear you don't like it...and then he's compared to Jim's performance? And yet we hardly want to criticize Steve's performance at all (not saying we should). Just rather strange...::shrugs::

Honestly I never thought to wonder why it was only from the waist up. That's what made them amazing, the performance was so entrancing you accepted everything else. :)

Agreed I think she was major much earlier than the '90s. She was always putting on the little plays. Plus the feminists in the '70s were always coming down on the show for not having enough female characters and I think she was a reaction to that.

Well I don't think there was much wrong with Jim's first performances. ;)

Well the appearances were posted on youtube and some comments were negative, others were positive. ::shrugs:: Like I say, as far as I've always been concerned, it hasn't been the Muppets for many years. On a separate note, not to give into gossip though, but if that rumor mentiond earlier...

Lol, never thought of it that way. Sort of like a guy who gets his own local cable show in his basement at 3am and just does whatever he feels like, lol. "Elmo's World! Elmo's World! Party time! Excellent!" :insatiable:

I definitely get what you're saying; that was a little strange. Not sure I'd want to be in that situation myself! The whole thing is very confusing. Though in the early days of the Muppets there were quite a few "rough" performances to be seen. I mean most things on TV back then were pretty...

I admit the puppetry seemed a bit beginner, yes. And no I do not like bad puppetry, thank you. ;) And Steve's early Kermit did have some flaws at the beginning; it grew over time. I won't mention specifics. I won't tear apart people's performances, like others are kind of doing here now with...

Well I agree about fanfics writers doing research. But I do also agree with Frogboy's point. We write about relationships not in the movies or TV show all the time. I don't think Frogboy's idea is so far out. :)

I agree, this second appearance was a noticeable improvement. Honestly, the only Kermit to me is Jim. So anyone else who performs him will be an imitation to me. There never has been another "true" Kermit as far as I'm concerned. That's not a comment on the quality of the other performers...

Yeah I know, not even putting up a pretense of finding something redeaming about it, hehe. I think everyone has that part of the brain that enjoys that sort of thing. Maybe most of the time we don't think about it, but Television stimulates it. It's the essence of advertising. We don't know we...