Your Thoughts: "The Muppets" Theatrical Film

[CensoredAlso]

because if that was in the movie it would literally erase every movie and thing they did after MTM.

Wouldn't bother me personally.

But in any case, messing with canon isn't unusual for the Muppets.

 

[zoebell]

well, i happen to like muppet christmas carol anyway. but isn't all the press stuff they do always canon as well? there was tons more of that after MTM, even before jim died. and the specials and stuff too. and then muppets tonight.

i personally think the last decade is where it was worse than some of the 90s stuff. but people seem to like VMC too, which i'll admit i haven't seen

 

[CensoredAlso]

but isn't all the press stuff they do always canon as well?

There isn't really a proper canon with the Muppets. There are too many contradictions, lol.

i personally think the last decade is where it was worse than some of the 90s stuff. but people seem to like VMC too, which i'll admit i haven't seen

I think MCC was a nice film, but not all that Muppety. And then from the '90s on they really started to flounder. That's why Jason Segal made such a point of trying to return the Muppets to their original moment of glory with this film.

 

[RedPiggy]

As a big frog/pig "shipper" (this is a new word to me--and I love new words)

Frigshipping?

It seems the others trickled away because he wasn't the same charismatic leader that he had been without her at his side.

I've been thinking about that a lot, actually. As much as Kermit is seen as the leader, he's really a worse wembler than Wembley. As you've noted, he tends to want a dream, but lacks the spine to go through with it (and perhaps feels intimidated by Piggy because she's actually willing to make herself successful). "C'mon, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to need moral support." Kermit says this to Team Walter, and it's actually true of his characterization all throughout his Muppety history. He needs THEIR support a lot more than they need his. In the first movie, Kermit has a conversation with himself, blatantly expressing his doubts WHILE PIGGY WAS NEARBY, so it can't be an issue that he is confident only when Piggy is around. Kermit-2 basically says, IIRC, that they didn't come for him, but for the Dream and that actually HE promised HIMSELF to get them to victory. Had he not met anyone, he'd probably make it to the MS River and turn back. Having others gives him an excuse to keep going.

Not for nothing is her picture covered up like a shrine in the hallway where the other pictures can be seen. He cannot bear to see what he has lost.

Also note the other pictures are kinda impressionistic, with huge, blotchy brush marks, but Piggy's is the most tenderly done.

Kermit is staying right where he is--not coming for her, not moving forward, but just sitting and waiting and hoping without being willing to do much about it.

I think Piggy is an analogy for his Dream. He wants to make people (her) happy, but he lacks conviction, spunk. I think he wants to see if SHE'LL come back (after all, she always did, didn't she?). He doesn't argue much when she refuses his offer in Paris.

HOWEVER ...
He DOES hire Miss Poogy. As fans will readily recognize, you count on one hand the minutes it'll take for Piggy to reappear when she's been replaced. Kermit's pulled this stunt plenty of times, and it worked yet again.
While Kermit lacks a spine, he's JUST as manipulative as Piggy is. He wants to believe that he is just some simple swamp creature, humble and meek, but he forgets Piggy is ALSO from a similar background ... but she actually fights for her dream. In fact, arguably, he's more passive-aggressive than she could ever hope to be. All Kermit has to do is give up, take her name off the marquee, and BAM ... Piggy's back!

When he had to replace Miss Piggy with Miss Poogy for the sake of the act and saving the theater, you can tell he wasn't too happy he had to do that.

It does seem that Kermit caved pretty quick ... except that a study of their history shows that he tends to pull this stunt every time he needs Piggy. He knows her well enough that by acting like she can be replaced, she'll come back because she can't stand the idea.

so they never lived in the house together? i thought the movie implied that they did and she left at some point.

I thought so, too, but let's face it: if Piggy had lived there, it wouldn't look like some somber "simple" mansion. It'd have bling from top to bottom. If she was there at all, it wasn't very long. The decorations are more Kermit than Piggy.

 

[zoebell]

yeah, but he'd been living there a long time alone by that point. he wouldn't just leave it the way she styled it. he covered up her picture too

i also think kermit's inability to tell her how he feels comes partly because he knows how she feels about him so completely. he's so secure in his knowledge of her love for him that he never felt anything was at risk by not showing her his feelings in return. and now it's a hard habit to break, but i like that this movie decided to tackle that head on. i feel like stoller and segel knew that very well and decided this time, finally, the kermit/piggy story had to come from his end

 

[Frogpuppeteer]

IIRC, that they didn't come for him, but for the Dream and that actually HE promised HIMSELF to get them to victory. Had he not met anyone, he'd probably make it to the MS River and turn back. Having others gives him an excuse to keep going.

love that scene
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgxr1fSmpJ0

 

[Gonzo's Hobbit]

Quick question, what's IIRC mean?

I kinda like how Kermit needs the others, because he knows he does. In my opinion it keeps him from getting an ego. I feel like if he headed off and the whole thing was I'M going to Holloywood, I have a dream etc, you can come if you want but it's MY dream, I wouldn't like him nearly as much.

 

[Drtooth]

so they never lived in the house together? i thought the movie implied that they did and she left at some point.

i kind of don't like the explanation in this junior novel because if that was in the movie it would literally erase every movie and thing they did after MTM. i was kind of thinking it had been more like 10 years and not, you know, 28. that's an insanely long time. or maybe they wanted to imply it had been since jim's death or something, i don't know.

It should be stressed this is a movie. And while most movies never kept a canon, this one sort of did, yet referred to them also as movies. Again, never try to make Muppet canon... as Kermit said in the first movie, "it's only approximately how it happened."

 

[zoebell]

i know that, but when they included the whole history of TMS, they're talking about what actually is canon, so it gets confusing

 

[CensoredAlso]

i know that, but when they included the whole history of TMS, they're talking about what actually is canon, so it gets confusing

Part of the Muppets' lack of canon is to insist there is canon and then later take it back. It's very Muppety that way, lol.