Your Thoughts: "The Muppets" Theatrical Film

[Randall Flagg]

I saw the movie for the first time last night. I had a couple of free tickets, so I figured why not? I have to say, I think they did a really good job. One thing I particularly liked was the fact that it was a packed theater, with hardly ANY kids, just a bunch of adults laughing their heads off.
I liked all the nods to original series and the previous movies, and overall, I thought the tone of the movie struck the right balance between sentimentality and hilarity. Also, I don't know if I've just gotten more used to it over the years, or if Steve's Kermit has gotten a lot better, but I really think he did an excellent job of capturing Henson's spirit in this one. I also think Kermit was written better in this one that he had been in some previous post-Henson appearances (though, I still think the REAL Kermit would at least make a few "pork" jokes at Piggy.) I also have to say that whoever is performing Scooter is doing a great job. He sounded MUCH better here than he did on Letters To Santa.

Three things that I felt could have better were:
1. The songs. They lacked the emotion that the original Muppet films had. For example, I assume "Pictures In My Head" was supposed to be sad, but it was a far cry from a song like "Going To Go Back There Someday." The best song in this movie was Rainbow Connection, but obviously that wasn't written for this movie. (by the way, how many songs ARE there really about rainbows and what's on the other side? Aside from Somewhere Over The Rainbow, I can't think of any.)

2. Not enough Pepe!! Come on, how do you give the funniest Muppet just a tiny cameo? But, in all fairness, this movie was supposed to be a throwback to the original Muppets, so it made sense in that way. I guess I should be glad he got any lines at all.

3. Too many pointless cameos. It's great that they got all these people to agree to be there, but why didn't they use any of them? I'm not saying they should have had dominant roles (I'm really glad they didn't, actually), but a lot of them didn't do anything even remotely funny, they were just there for the sake of being there. It didn't really make sense to me.

But those are mainly just nitpicks. I had a great time watching it, and apparently everyone else in the very crowded theater was also having a great time (I missed some of the dialogue because people were laughing so loudly, which is a good sign.)

 

[Randall Flagg]

Oh, and one more thing that I forgot to mention:

I'm sure this has been brought up before, but did anyone think it was kind of silly that the Muppets felt defeated because they came up 1 dollar short? Do you mean to tell me that NONE of the Muppets could have put in a dollar of their own? Or that Gary, Mary and Walter couldn't spare $1? It just seemed a bit silly that they were $1 short and they were acting like there was nothing they could do about it.

 

[MWoO]

They werent off by a dollar, they were off by 9.9 million, or something like that. When fozzie hits the counter we see it was set wrong and was off by two decimal places. They raised like 100k. It was clever to put that gag in because until then I thought the same thing you did.

 

[CensoredAlso]

(though, I still think the REAL Kermit would at least make a few "pork" jokes at Piggy.)

Oh yeah definitely, it's just that in recent years the jokes went a little too far and I think they're trying to pull back at the moment.

2. Not enough Pepe!! Come on, how do you give the funniest Muppet just a tiny cameo? But, in all fairness, this movie was supposed to be a throwback to the original Muppets, so it made sense in that way. I guess I should be glad he got any lines at all.

I honestly don't mind that. Jim's characters are the ones actually in need of exposure.

 

[Oscarfan]

Oh, and one more thing that I forgot to mention:

I'm sure this has been brought up before, but did anyone think it was kind of silly that the Muppets felt defeated because they came up 1 dollar short? Do you mean to tell me that NONE of the Muppets could have put in a dollar of their own? Or that Gary, Mary and Walter couldn't spare $1? It just seemed a bit silly that they were $1 short and they were acting like there was nothing they could do about it.

Well, they never actually had that much; it was a glitch with the sign. They were nowhere near their goal.

 

[Drtooth]

Oh, and one more thing that I forgot to mention:

I'm sure this has been brought up before, but did anyone think it was kind of silly that the Muppets felt defeated because they came up 1 dollar short? Do you mean to tell me that NONE of the Muppets could have put in a dollar of their own? Or that Gary, Mary and Walter couldn't spare $1? It just seemed a bit silly that they were $1 short and they were acting like there was nothing they could do about it.

In one of the drafts, Statler and Waldorf had the dollar, and somehow it blew out of their reach anyway... that would have worked, but I kinda like the idea of them being defeated by a decimal point.

 

[Ruahnna]

Welcome, Randall, to the conversation. I, too, thought Kermit was written better in this movie than in some previous post-Henson appearances, the best of which, IMNTBHO, is IAVMMC--at least as far as Kermit-ness goes. But I think you are mistaken. All the "let's make fun of Piggy" stuff pretty much began after Jim died, and The Muppets is the first sign I've seen in a long time that they are getting back to the old relationship. Yes, Kermit could be snarky--he is snarky to Fozzie (often), Scooter (frequently) and Gonzo (a lot)--and he was not above calling her on her over-the-top behavior at times, but Kermit always treated Piggy with some measure of respect--until Jim died. After that is when the "treat Piggy rudely" and "treat Piggy like an embarrassment" behavior started. It went so far as to extend into A Red and Green Christmas, where the Swedish Chef's cooking is touted, and Piggy is treated disgracefully in one of her songs. Even in TMTM, when Kermit is making fun of Piggy for saying they were in love, he comes to his senses and remembers that he cares about her.

(Sorry--jumping off again, here, into deep relationship dissection.... Stay with me at your own peril.) TMTM was, in fact, the place where Jim said the REAL wedding happened. Even the junior movie novel indicates that the wedding was real--just never acted upon because Kermit yelled at Piggy instead of embracing her and she left tearfully for Paris. I just read the junior novel today, having been scared off of it before the movie by hearing that Kermit said terrible things to Piggy. As a big frog/pig "shipper" (this is a new word to me--and I love new words), there were some very happy-making things in the movie. In no particular order:

*Piggy gets along just fine without Kermit. Kermit without Piggy--not so much. The junior novel indicates that the muppets broke up after she left. Kermit--literally--seems to lose his heart when she left. It seems the others trickled away because he wasn't the same charismatic leader that he had been without her at his side.

*The fight was pretty bad (in the novel) but not as bad as I had feared. I hardly think Piggy would have waited two weeks to tell Kermit they were married--there's no explanation for this lapse in time AT ALL in the book--but when she does come bustling in, she has a ton of paparazzi in tow. In the junior novel, Piggy "tricked" Kermit with the real minister and he didn't really know he was getting married. Come on. Lame, lame, lame. The previous canon (per Jim and Frank) indicated that Kermit realized the wedding would be real if he said "I do," but looked into Piggy's radiant, hopeful face and said "yes," knowing it would make him happy. But in the junior novel, the indication is that the marriage was real, but Kermit was unaware of it. He only realizes it when Piggy arrives (two weeks later?) with the paparazzi. When he becomes aware that the wedding (and the marriage) were apparently real, he screams at Piggy in front of the world's ten leading publications and says she will never, ever, ever be his wife. That's kindof hard to take back--and Kermit has never been one to apologize. Never. Piggy leaves, but there is no mention--either way--that the "real" wedding referenced by both Piggy and Kermit in the fight is annulled or canceled or...anything. I'm interested to see what they do with that.

*When Kermit and Piggy have their talk in Paris, Piggy is a fully-realized, competent, well-balanced, un-clingy woman, er, pig. She has moved on, realizing that her love for Kermit was never going to be acted upon in a way that could make her happy and content, but unwilling to stay around and accept the crumbs of attention he might drop. (Enter ten years of obnoxious fat jokes, professional jokes and general juvinile nastiness on Kermit's part.) If he doesn't want her--all of her--the way she wants him, she won't accept less. She will find something else to be passionate about. And she does. Kermit? Kermit crawls in a hole--still not really apologetic but seriously unhappy about driving her away. Not for nothing is her picture covered up like a shrine in the hallway where the other pictures can be seen. He cannot bear to see what he has lost.

*Piggy has come to terms with how she is. When Kermit accuses her of being overly dramatic she says, "That's how I am. You need to accept that about me and stop trying to change me." In psychological talk, she's bascially saying, "Love me the way I am or go away again." She survived once. She could survive again. And since I already brought up psychological talk, did you notice that Kermit said, "you make me hurt you." That's called "not owning up to your own role in the relationship" and is considered immature. Unlike Piggy, Kermit has not come to terms with how he is. In simplest terms, Kermit needs to decide if he wants Piggy or not. Period. She happens to be a diva, and rather high-maintainance, but he fell in love with her anyway. If he didn't want to be in love with a high-maintainence diva, he shouldn't have picked one. There were plenty of frogs in the swamp, and plenty of male co-stars who were happy to take his place.

*The house was an interesting idea. In the movie, Kermit's been living there. In the junior novel, he's been checking on the house but living in a pond across the street in the park. But when Piggy says, (sorry--I'm having to paraphrase because I can't yet quote the movie) "I realized you were never going to marry me, even though I built us a house where we would raise tadpoles and grow old together" well, I have to tell you--my heart began to hammer in my chest. Piggy just admitted wanting two things I never thought I'd see: to have tadpoles, and to grow old--as long as those things were with Kermit. And all Kermit can do in the face of that admission is stammer and hem and haw and say, "Oh yeah? Well, who do you think has been taking care of the house all these years?"
Although Piggy is moved by that admission, it tells her all she needs to know. Kermit is staying right where he is--not coming for her, not moving forward, but just sitting and waiting and hoping without being willing to do much about it. If the other muppets had not intervened, he wouldn't have even gone to get Piggy. Piggy wouldn't have come to help. They wouldn't have had a guest star--however unwilling--and a telethon. And they never would have had the opportunity to know that their fans had not forgotten them.

*And I think the thing I love the best about the "resolution" of their relationship in the movie is that, when all is said and done--and all is not said--Piggy really understands and loves Kermit enough to hear what he's not always able to say. Yes--like Mary, she would LOVE it if he would sweep her off her stiletto heels and tell her he's wild about her, has been miserable without her and doesn't want to spend another day without her beside him. But Kermit isn't able to do that. He might feel all of that, but he just can't articulate it, but Piggy hears his heart in what he does say. (Let's hope Kermit's pillow talk is a little more up to par!)[/QUOTE]

 

[CensoredAlso]

But I think you are mistaken. All the "let's make fun of Piggy" stuff pretty much began after Jim died, and The Muppets is the first sign I've seen in a long time that they are getting back to the old relationship. Yes, Kermit could be snarky--he is snarky to Fozzie (often), Scooter (frequently) and Gonzo (a lot)--and he was not above calling her on her over-the-top behavior at times, but Kermit always treated Piggy with some measure of respect--until Jim died. After that is when the "treat Piggy rudely" and "treat Piggy like an embarrassment" behavior started.

Exactly.

 

[Muppet fan 123]

Hi, all! New here-- so forgive me if there's a better area of the forum in which to ask this, but I've been desperately trying to locate a Miss Piggy quote from the film. I saw the movie last week, loved it, and am seeing it again this weekend, but am impatient to recall this quote in the meantime, as it was so funny. Something about Miss Piggy's dramatic/overreacting nature in love, or something...? Ugh, I forget. But it was hilarious. Anyone remember or know where more quotes are listed? Not much on IMDB etc. Thanks!

"There is only one Miss Piggy and she is MOI"

 

[Drtooth]

Piggy gets along just fine without Kermit. Kermit without Piggy--not so much. The junior novel indicates that the muppets broke up after she left. Kermit--literally--seems to lose his heart when she left. It seems the others trickled away because he wasn't the same charismatic leader that he had been without her at his side.

That's the kind of smartly written subtlety that makes me call the whole "disrespecting characters" bit bunk. Piggy did get along in her own way without Kermit, yet it really feels that the success was plastic... and while Piggy thought she was happy, deep down she needed Kermit. She just didn't show it in the same way Kermit did. You can tell Kermit was more upset about Piggy not being with the group than anyone else. His world crumbled, he lost his leadership, the gang crumbled apart soon after. Yet, he was much more sentimental, keeping up a dilapidated house they bought together... Piggy's was all about emotional inner subtlety, Kermit's was a very obvious breakdown. To consider, Piggy's the overly dramatic one, and Kermit only blows his temper when he's stretched to the limit. When he had to replace Miss Piggy with Miss Poogy for the sake of the act and saving the theater, you can tell he wasn't too happy he had to do that.

In the junior novel, Piggy "tricked" Kermit with the real minister and he didn't really know he was getting married. Come on. Lame, lame, lame. The previous canon (per Jim and Frank) indicated that Kermit realized the wedding would be real if he said "I do," but looked into Piggy's radiant, hopeful face and said "yes," knowing it would make him happy. But in the junior novel, the indication is that the marriage was real, but Kermit was unaware of it. He only realizes it when Piggy arrives (two weeks later?) with the paparazzi. When he becomes aware that the wedding (and the marriage) were apparently real, he screams at Piggy in front of the world's ten leading publications and says she will never, ever, ever be his wife. That's kindof hard to take back--and Kermit has never been one to apologize. Never. Piggy leaves, but there is no mention--either way--that the "real" wedding referenced by both Piggy and Kermit in the fight is annulled or canceled or...anything. I'm interested to see what they do with that.

The thing is, a marriage isn't really official without a certificate in some cases... that could be the source that they weren't really married even with a real minister officiating. Somehow, if that's the case, Kermit probably didn't know (isn't that a nod to an unused sequence in MTM?), and was happy because it felt right... right enough for him to actually consider it for real. I take it this way. While the internal conflict in the relation is that Piggy is very impulsive and Kermit is pretty laid back until he's provoked enough, Kermit DID want to get married. It seems that being (as he assumed) fake married felt so right that after the Broadway play he might just actually propose for real, slowly pick a date, and slowly work things out. Add to the fact there's a trust issue. The fact Piggy had to trick him with a real minister sends the message that she doesn't trust him to do it himself when he feels ready. And even if he did feel ready (I think he did), the fact that he was tricked, albeit into something he was going to do, started an angry argument about trust, drudging up the past, and things were said that couldn't be taken back that Kermit would live to regret.

Again, that's the magic of the relation ship that was lost a while ago... they do deeply care about each other, but Kermit's laid back until provoked personality clashed with Piggy's impulsiveness and emotional tendencies.

But I think you are mistaken. All the "let's make fun of Piggy" stuff pretty much began after Jim died, and The Muppets is the first sign I've seen in a long time that they are getting back to the old relationship. Yes, Kermit could be snarky--he is snarky to Fozzie (often), Scooter (frequently) and Gonzo (a lot)--and he was not above calling her on her over-the-top behavior at times, but Kermit always treated Piggy with some measure of respect--until Jim died. After that is when the "treat Piggy rudely" and "treat Piggy like an embarrassment" behavior started.

I find that to be a very Flanderized version of their TV show relationship. It was sorta kinda like that in the first couple of seasons, but in the movies, you can tell there's a loving respect. Somehow, someone got the idea that the public likes the fat joke/Hiyah bit over the fact that they have a complicated relationship of clashing personalities that they're both working hard through. And then they just kept that up again and again, photocopying a photocopy until all that's left is a blurry gray jumble of what once was. Far more disrespectful than Kermit living in a mansion. I hope this movie means they can add the subtlety back to the relationship.