The Bible and Love and Christians

[CensoredAlso]

I don't do the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. These people ARE Christians, just jerkwad Christians.

I see them mainly as jerkwad human beings.

 

[RedPiggy]

Indeed.

 

[Drtooth]

Here's another disturbing article about the treatment of gays by the Christian leadership in Ghana. What makes this troubling is that a lot of this activity is promoted and funded by prominent religious groups right here in the US. There's a Vanguard documentary on Hulu that discusses much of how that works. I wish we had a way to get a list of the offending US Christian groups supporting these atrocities so that their followers could hold them to task. America does have its faults on this issue, but not like this potential holocost-in-the-making to rid Ghana of gay people by any means necessary. Here's the transcription for those who don't press the link:

This is going to probably sound intollerant, but I think it needs to be said.

Africa (at least parts of it) is a pretty screwed up place. Look at Somalia and the evil machinations of El Shoobop or whatever they're called. I mean, really... for a bastion of evil, you sure sound like a lame Spanish Doo Wop group. There's just so much... so much terrible stuff going on there that I wouldn't be surprised if they actually started government approved concentration camps in Ghana. And to be clear, this isn't JUST Christians, but Muslims...

I try very very hard to be tolerant towards religion nowadays... but when you have a "religious" movement based on people thinking one particular act being "ungodly" (and that act isn't genocide, raping innocent women in front of their children, and all the other WONDERFUL things you find in certain parts of Africa that are clearly sanctioned by God, Jesus, and all those other religious figures) you wind up with the most extreme for of fascism possible.

Now, there is a difference for me between Christians (or members of any religion for that matter) that have beliefs that some find disagreeable but they're entitled to them and religious fanatics that want to clean up the world to fit with their backwards agenda. I can't even call the Ghanaian people bigots. They're beyond that. They're slowly becoming the next African country of Hitler like genocide enthusiasts that can't get along with another kind of people because they're ScArY!!!!

Yeah, I would love to think that even the rightest of the right wing churches in this country would drop Ghana like a nuclear potato, but then again, some of our religious leadership is just as corrupt as they are. They just don't have the power to do that over here.

 

[frogboy4]

It is rather scary what's happening over there. It reminds me of a documentary I saw on skinheads in the 90's and how they recruit the poor and disenfranchised. Some key Bible-bangers over here, who've lost sight of what their mission actually should be, are fueling the irrational hatred in places like Ghana for their own manipulative purposes. Then my peers incorrectly see this activity as a representation of religion as a whole.

 

[beaker]

For all the right wing fundies and the radio hate hucksters they listen to daily spewing all this "Muslims this, Islamicization that"...interesting to see how one of the worst acts of terrorism in Europe is surprise surprise: by a self proclaimed conservative Christian who "hates Muslims and socialists"(socialist meaning anyone who believes in an open society, health care, etc)

Dr Tooth: A big reason of WHY Africa is so messed up is white colonization/imperialism and corporate backed interests. You can directly link cellphone/laptop companies to mine related conflicts in the Congo...you can directly link the Chinese oil interests to Darfur, you can link France and Belgium to Rwanda in 1994. I've seen so many documentaries on this stuff. Behind each genocide, dictator, conflict, etc in Africa is
Western and globalist corporate/political interests behind the scenes. It's just a fact.

But yeah, it's a tell tale sign when you don't see many Christian leaders in America or Conservatives speaking up against the Nazi like agenda against gays in Ghana, Uganda, Senegal, etc. No surprise it's American Republican fundie politicians pulling the strings in all these cases.

This is a cultural war. America and the world is under a two prong assault from both corporate/megabank/globalist(new world order) fascist interests and from hate filled religious extremism from Abrahamic faiths. There is no "Commie socialist" agenda, other than people wanting free and open societies and to be free of oppression.

Also, you know...I went to a planned parenthood the other day. I know someone who really needs to get breast/OBGYN care at an affordable cost, so I took the initiative to go to my local planned parenthood and inquire.

Well guess what? They offer an insane amount of good services, and even go out of their way to provide every possible need to gay/lesbian/transgender/intersex/queer
people. Who else does that? They offer at affordable cost every sort of checkup, birth control, etc. I didnt see dozens of crying women waiting in life to have abortions. I did see a lot of women getting birth control and exams.
The right wing in this country is living in this false dichotomy where sex education and contraception is "wrong", yet abortion is also wrong. Im not a fan of abortion, but you just can't have it both ways.

I'm thankful to live in a more liberal "conservative" area. What that means is that while many people in my community go to church, it's of more progressive congregations...you dont see any right wing fundie garbage going on. Live and let live and all that. My dream is to see the hate, Glenn Beck/Rush/Fox love and ignorance slowly become unpopular in America and especially within Christian circles. Maybe in a hundred years we'll live in a progressive society with alternative energy, good health care, jobs, etc. One can only dream.

 

[beaker]

Btw, why do Christian and Muslim fundies hate eachother? They both hate gays, see women as second class, are against anything remotely liberal, progressive, new, innovative, fun, etc. They should join forces or something.

Least the Jews, even the Hasidics, don't go around trying to convert and aggressively push hateful tropes.

 

[RedPiggy]

They hate each other because they are "other", so even though they're spouting the exact same things, it can't be acknowledged because "enemies" can't believe the same things.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Also, you know...I went to a planned parenthood the other day.Well guess what? They offer an insane amount of good services, and even go out of their way to provide every possible need to gay/lesbian/transgender/intersex/queer
people. Who else does that? They offer at affordable cost every sort of checkup, birth control, etc. I didnt see dozens of crying women waiting in life to have abortions. I did see a lot of women getting birth control and exams.
The right wing in this country is living in this false dichotomy where sex education and contraception is "wrong", yet abortion is also wrong. Im not a fan of abortion, but you just can't have it both ways.

For the record, I know and I'm glad Planned Parenthood offers other services like the ones you mentioned. But to me it's like Wal Mart. Wal Mart offers great things too but I'll never go there because ultimately it's no friend to the working class. Neither is Planned Parenthood. It's supporting the poverty system rather than helping to stop it.

If there's one thing both the "right" and the "left" have in common, it's the equal ability to let me down, lol. Mainly because in Washington they play up this fake persona of being the "right and the "left" when they're all really friends and they're playing us for suckers. They keep us busy blaming the "other side," when in reality neither "side" is working for us. When this country ultimately fails, it will be because we were all having such a great time being enemies we failed to notice what was really going on.

Also I went to Catholic school but we were given sex education. I agree that both abstience and safe sex should be taught (because frankly teaching either one by itself is no guarantee!)

 

[Drtooth]

Btw, why do Christian and Muslim fundies hate eachother? They both hate gays, see women as second class, are against anything remotely liberal, progressive, new, innovative, fun, etc. They should join forces or something.

Least the Jews, even the Hasidics, don't go around trying to convert and aggressively push hateful tropes.

I don't see why people like that can't blow each other up and leave us the heck alone. Joining forces almost sounds like they'd be even more effective to bring us back to the wonderful dark ages they especially like. There's stuff in religion that sounds like it makes sense, and stuff religious followers should drop like a nuclear potato. I hate, what I call, Robotnik fundamentalists that ban any kind of music, fun or happiness. I don't like what was happening in Afghanistan, but I don't like how we got involved in that quagmire, either. I mean, what religion says it's okay to rape a woman to death if they leave the house? That's not a religion... that's a doomsday cult.

This is a cultural war. America and the world is under a two prong assault from both corporate/megabank/globalist(new world order) fascist interests and from hate filled religious extremism from Abrahamic faiths. There is no "Commie socialist" agenda, other than people wanting free and open societies and to be free of oppression.

Also, you know...I went to a planned parenthood the other day. I know someone who really needs to get breast/OBGYN care at an affordable cost, so I took the initiative to go to my local planned parenthood and inquire.

Well guess what? They offer an insane amount of good services, and even go out of their way to provide every possible need to gay/lesbian/transgender/intersex/queer
people. Who else does that? They offer at affordable cost every sort of checkup, birth control, etc. I didnt see dozens of crying women waiting in life to have abortions. I did see a lot of women getting birth control and exams.
The right wing in this country is living in this false dichotomy where sex education and contraception is "wrong", yet abortion is also wrong. Im not a fan of abortion, but you just can't have it both ways.

I'm thankful to live in a more liberal "conservative" area. What that means is that while many people in my community go to church, it's of more progressive congregations...you dont see any right wing fundie garbage going on. Live and let live and all that. My dream is to see the hate, Glenn Beck/Rush/Fox love and ignorance slowly become unpopular in America and especially within Christian circles. Maybe in a hundred years we'll live in a progressive society with alternative energy, good health care, jobs, etc. One can only dream.

This all started with Reagan and mutated president by president EVEN the supposed left wing ones. Religiopoliticocorporate powers all formed into one big ball of doom. We get our American Patriot George Washington news from an Australian billionaire. One that's under a heavy ethics scandal, which he'll slither away from no doubt, but a scandal no less. Beck is a danger to himself and others. I know homeless loonies who sound more coherent. And I love how everyone wanted health care reform in the country until the Neo-Cons and their friends mutant industry and blood lust stock holders paid everyone to tell us we didn't want health care. "THIS IS not the health care reform you're looking for!" "This is not the health care reform we're looking for...."

Isn't Christianity about charity? Helping the poor, miserable, lonely, depressed, sick, dying, starving... reforming people who fell down the wrong path and are miserable about it. How come, in the hands of all these nasty little curs in history, turned into a cult of hate, rejection, reforming people that do stuff a few don't like, enslavement to the wealthiest, and all this Hades on Earth stuff? We've been played the fool for centuries, we need... no... DEMAND better religious leadership. Not just in Christianity... but all the others, and lack there of too.

If there's one thing both the "right" and the "left" have in common, it's the equal ability to let me down, lol. Mainly because in Washington they play up this fake persona of being the "right and the "left" when they're all really friends and they're playing us for suckers. They keep us busy blaming the "other side," when in reality neither "side" is working for us. When this country ultimately fails, it will be because we were all having such a great time being enemies we failed to notice what was really going on.

The Right especially has proven that it can't get along with each OTHER, let alone the other party. And sometimes the blaming the other guy IS accurate, but towing party lines ruins any chance for any side to LEARN from the mistakes of the other or their own. Yet, a third party seems more likely and less likely at the same time because... face it, we all want different things in a third party. No one, not even the voters want to compromise to a middle road candidate. But if we ever WANT one, steps need to be taken... organization, and a drawn out conversation about what we generally want. At least.

 

[beaker]

Heralde said:

If there's one thing both the "right" and the "left" have in common, it's the equal ability to let me down, lol. Mainly because in Washington they play up this fake persona of being the "right and the "left" when they're all really friends and they're playing us for suckers. They keep us busy blaming the "other side," when in reality neither "side" is working for us. When this country ultimately fails, it will be because we were all having such a great time being enemies we failed to notice what was really going on.

Absolutely. America's infrastructure is crumbling(roads, freeways, bridges, schools, whole cities) So many people of all races and areas are out of work, feeling let down, struggling. Yet aside from a few good republicans/independents/democrats on the hill, most do not have our interests overall. They rather spend trillions on needless corporate wars and get 6500 US soldiers needlessly killed while giving tens of billions to the state sponsors of the terrorists/insurgents they're fighting. They defunded ACORN which was helping poor black people afford housing, but continue to federally fund provenly criminal defense contractors and bailout corrupt banks. And the lobbyists, corporate welfare, etc. I feel bad for all the seniors and middle aged people being suckered into this "Tea Party" mentality, since it's the GOP strategists behind that fake dissent.

Even the some of the civilian "left" bugs me. The "American Athiests" are trying to have the morale boosting and symbolic steel beam cross removed from the 9/11 memorial.
Meanwhile right wing politicians have passed a law saying mothers have to prove it was a miscarriage or face jail time. It's just nuts.

Hopefully that debt talk passes, though I fear social services will still be cut...but either way people will hopefully wake up to what's going on. Look at Iceland and Greece...who woulda thought those countries would collapse?