The Bible and Love and Christians

[CensoredAlso]

Yeah but remember that "Trust Scientology" commercial from the '80s? Creepy! lol

 

[beaker]

Virtually every mormon I've met are very nice. Especially the kids. But it's like with any leadership. I've rarely met a Catholic I didn't like, but the regional leadership(and at times, Vatican) coverup of the abuse pandemic in America and Europe exposes schisms in any sort of leadership. I think the Vatican has been budging a little more though. Pope Benedict has apologized for some Vatican officials siding with the Nazis, has apologized to abuse victims, etc. The Vatican has even embraced a lot of science it hadn't before.

The problem with the LDS is that unlike the Vatican and their suggestion guidelines, the LDS has hardcore strict rules and mandatory tithing. Now the problem comes from good people's money being used to for things like Prop 8, where gay marriage was legal but then got stripped away. I'm glad that LDS has since done away with "blacks are the sons of Cain" meme as of the early 1980's, and are involved in some good works projects.

They clearly though have wooed and become the darlings of the evangelical religious right for whatever reason. I don't like religious persecution, we see all the time in the world persecution and wars within religious splits(Serbs vs Ethnic Albanians, Catholics vs Protestants in Ireland, Sunni vs Shiite) The Mormons suffered a lot of federal and state persecution in the 1800's, leading to the LDS orchestrated massacre of 120 emigrants passing through.

Now I don't know why the LDS took such a commanding main role in Prop 8 when it wasn't even their main base of operation or even really their main cause; and I certainly do not wish to lay any blame to people of the LDS faith. I just think it's unfortunate that the leaders chose to insert themselves into the fray.

Michelle Bachman today was revealed on the news as using "gay fixing" pseudo psychology at her family's practice. Again, Im sure these are good people but eesh...

 

[beaker]

Dr Tooth: WELL SAID.

Obama is doing everything the right wants: starting wars and bombing Pakistan, Yemen, Libya, Somalia...saying he's willing to cut Social Security. He even took out their boogeyman bin Laden.

But NOTHING is good enough for the right. They hate him, and deep down I think we all know the real reason for that(and it has nothing to do with Beck-ian theories of being a secret Muslim or Commie)

In a way I do feel bad. Obama already has half the country with the right hating him...but now he's losing the support of his liberal base who see him as too much of a neocon. Yet the right does not see it this way...they dont see his wars, expansion of the patriot act, TSA Airport insanity, etc as following Bush. They focus on goofy memes parroted by Rush. Basically, they criticize him for all the wrong reasons

 

[RedPiggy]

Virtually every mormon I've met are very nice. Especially the kids. But it's like with any leadership. I've rarely met a Catholic I didn't like, but the regional leadership(and at times, Vatican) coverup of the abuse pandemic in America and Europe exposes schisms in any sort of leadership.

Yes, I feel it's important to separate the leadership from the public. Even in the most representative of societies, they're not THAT representative. They're in power because they wanted to be.

The Mormons suffered a lot of federal and state persecution in the 1800's, leading to the LDS orchestrated massacre of 120 emigrants passing through.

To listen to homophobes, having gay marriage will lead to other "alternatives" being legal. While they tend to focus irrationally on kids and pets, the irony is that polygamy, an original staple of this group, would actually have a chance to stop being illegal AND it's ok'd in the bible, which is supposedly soooooo important to Christians.
You would think Mormons would jump at the chance to have "alternate" definitions of marriage, particularly those not forbidden in the bible, available as legal options.

 

[Drtooth]

Dr Tooth: WELL SAID.

Obama is doing everything the right wants: starting wars and bombing Pakistan, Yemen, Libya, Somalia...saying he's willing to cut Social Security. He even took out their boogeyman bin Laden.

Actually, if he REALLY wanted to follow in Bush's footsteps they'd constantly "Just miss him." and hold his existence over everyone's heads. I still think killing him means nothing in the long run, and it's basically cutting off one of hydra's heads, but at least we got rid of someone who made Bush a Hero.

But NOTHING is good enough for the right. They hate him, and deep down I think we all know the real reason for that(and it has nothing to do with Beck-ian theories of being a secret Muslim or Commie)

In a way I do feel bad. Obama already has half the country with the right hating him...but now he's losing the support of his liberal base who see him as too much of a neocon. Yet the right does not see it this way...they dont see his wars, expansion of the patriot act, TSA Airport insanity, etc as following Bush. They focus on goofy memes parroted by Rush. Basically, they criticize him for all the wrong reasons

You know, I wonder how much of this is genuine and how much of this is just part of the system. Seems Obama really made a sharp veer right after the mid-elections, thinking that was a statement against him... even though technically, it was more of a statement that the American Public will believe ANYTHING Boss Limbaugh tells them. We've been losing jobs ever since they elected people with wonderful imaginary job plans. Mostly from the public sector after all this baloney budget cutting.

Some it it just feels to me that the right WANTS to turn him into this, so the liberals will get angry, vote for Nader or some other third party split vote, and a broader based of conservatives, idiot undecideds, and some other of the ticked off Dems will vote for Romeny... and considering what he did to MA, I NEVER want to see him hold so much as a home office again. it's like Obama walked RIGHT into their trap.

I really wish he'd get a clue, get angry, raise the debt ceiling himself, tax the bloody heck out of corrupt big business and the little parasitic stock holders, pull us out of every war, even and especially ones he got conned into, and actually BE a leader. But that will NEVER happen.

At least one good came out of this. The Right went out of it's way to prove they were wrong about Obama being a Kenyan illegal immigrant and that he was a powerful socialist. The only reason why the country is in such "bad shape" under him is because he's managing to keep the same Bush policies everyone LOOOOVED with a Rep was in the house. I hated his attempts at bi-partisan ship by hiring the same Neo-Cons and "we want to keep our jobs" idiot army generals that Bush had. I wish he'd have just taken the evil socialist dictator stuff and ran with it.

 

[RedPiggy]

it's like Obama walked RIGHT into their trap.

I'm more impressed they can make a trap that "sophisticated".

I really wish he'd get a clue, get angry, raise the debt ceiling himself, tax the bloody heck out of corrupt big business and the little parasitic stock holders, pull us out of every war, even and especially ones he got conned into, and actually BE a leader. But that will NEVER happen.

I wonder if taking them by the balls wouldn't garner more respect. These are people who must follow a "Leader", someone who simply says, "Sit down, shut up, get out of my way, here's how we're doing business." They don't respect people who ask for representative opinions. As far as I'm aware, Obama is the first to start using the internet to communicate more than just regular headlines. I get emails every so often from the White House, which, even if I don't read them all the time, I appreciate the acknowledgement of the usefulness of technology.

 

[Drtooth]

I'm more impressed they can make a trap that "sophisticated".

They could catch the Road Runner, Lupin, and Jerry the Mouse with that one. THEY had a plan once they lost the 08 election. Basically use Obama as a patsy and successfully Jimmy Carter him out of office, and Reagan in one of their politicians. Let's say McCain won... we'd be in a slightly worse scenario (unless he was serious about bombing Iran... which would mean we'd be in a far worse scenario), the difference is, the opposition wouldn't have 10 minute long "We LUVZ You!" reports on the news, Beck and Limbaugh would say let the president do whatever he wants, and we'd be in for more Freedom Fries and HUAC-esque You're with us or against us Rhetoric. At least, that's my impression.

The main different between Obama and Bush is that Obama is criticized by people that matter. Bush didn't have a bad approval rating until Hurricane Katrina and having one of his idiot drinkin' buddies screw everything up. Now it's like, someone steps in a pile of dog poo, and apparently, it's Obama's fault because he's a socialist somehow. I really wish the Tea Fiends would open their eyes and realize that Obama's become the far right Republican they wanted to put into office in the first place.

I really think deep down Obama wants to do the right thing... but it's politics... it makes potential great leaders into toadies, and it turns those who were toadies to begin with into borderline dictators.

But still... you'd think the right would at least behave like adults, instead of spoiled fat brat children who always get what they want and cry that they didn't get enough of what they want.

 

[beaker]

The threats by Obama and Ben Vernake of slashing social security/medicare and possibly not having 70 million social security/welfare/etc checks be released would pretty much cause a firestorm of anger they could not contain. Maybe thats what some GOP want, I don't know. They keep talking about a debt ceiling.
I was thinking...

The US government has in the last decade:

- spent trillions on unnecessary wars

- given tens of billions to corrupt Muslim nations who secretly finance the very insurgents and terrorists we are fighting

- given billions to corrupt war criminal private military contractors and construction/energy/mercenary companies

- spent over a trillion dollars bailing out highly corrupt criminal mega financial firms and banks(some of whom are linked to drug cartels, insider trading, laundering, etc)

And they want to cut social security, medicare, and social programs? Seriously?

At what point will people stop calling folks like me "nut jobs" and wake up to what is going on? This goofy left vs right stuff has got to end. People need to turn off Beck, Rush, MSNBC, CNN, even Comedy Central "news". Start doing research, getting educated. The liberals, conservatives and so called "centrist moderates" are headless chickens running around with nary a clue as to the underlying forces behind this.

The left and right cheered when Obama killed Osama, yet Obama says the wars wont end. And then two days ago on MSNBC primetime the former co-chair of the 9/11 commission Bob Graham said how flat out the Bush white house covered up the fact Saudi Arabia was behind the 9/11 hijackers and bin Laden. Yet, America does tens of billions of annual contracts with them. I guess if people knew what was really going on(like how the ATF agency was caught giving tens of thousands of weapons to Mexican cartels and Wells Fargo was caught laundering hundreds of billions of cartel drug money) there'd be riots in the street.

How this relates to Christian faith, is that I have known some good meaning Christians who talk about "Romans 13", in supporting your government no matter what. I'm thinking, if the founding fathers did that we wouldn't even have an America. I just don't like so many Americans of all stripes suffering...but its like as long as they have their netflix, smart phones, endless texting, facebook, twitter, youtube, xbla, and reality shows they don't notice...that is until their dollar is rendered worthless.

 

[CensoredAlso]

You would think Mormons would jump at the chance to have "alternate" definitions of marriage, particularly those not forbidden in the bible, available as legal options.

Thankfully, mainstream Mormons today wouldn't jump at a chance for polygamy, lol. But I do know what you mean. Polygamy isn't specifically forbidden in the Bible, yet Mormons have decided for themselves that it's wrong. So why are they being so rigid on gay marriage?

 

[Drtooth]

The threats by Obama and Ben Vernake of slashing social security/medicare and possibly not having 70 million social security/welfare/etc checks be released would pretty much cause a firestorm of anger they could not contain. Maybe thats what some GOP want, I don't know. They keep talking about a debt ceiling.

Here's what the debt ceiling battle is... it's all another right wing stunt for 2012... they just wanna show the world that they have the president by the short hairs. THEY are the ones that specifically said they want to kill all the "entitlements" that help out the elderly (but they will conveniently end after the bitter elderly voters that keep right wing guys in power use them ALLLLLL up), while the left was talking about actual tax cuts. So naturally, the president goes against his own party to "compromise" with people who "sacrifice" nothing and still manage to get votes by means of hateful internet memes for the old fogeys who just found out what an internet was.

I know we're in some uber corrupt government whatzahoozits... but come on. At least Bill Clinton TAXED everyone and raised revenues to pay for the corruption.

I was thinking...

The US government has in the last decade:

- spent trillions on unnecessary wars

- given tens of billions to corrupt Muslim nations who secretly finance the very insurgents and terrorists we are fighting

- given billions to corrupt war criminal private military contractors and construction/energy/mercenary companies

As I said before, technically it's the right that really wants to get rid of all the things that help us, but them and the corporations play their hands and turned a supposed liberal into a hard core neo-con... and he's STILL not far right enough... Let's face it, these companies are run by some VERY stupid greedy people if they think losing some ill-gotten tax money is worse than completely folding when the dollar's worth crap and NO ONE can pay any bills.

Decade schmecade... try the past 30 years. I mean, there was crap before, but it REALLY came to town when a certain hack movie actor took over. I mean, it's like...what did Nixon do bad again? Extend 1 war and supposedly send goons to cheat on an election? Something tells me it's just the culture.... both sides are screwed up, and the best we can hope for is whatever party provides something mutually beneficial. Or whatever party doesn't think that slavery was a great thing for children. Seriously, what a Freudian slip! The Right's been trying to bring back slavery for years... only I doubt they'll make the mistake of it being ONE race.