The Bible and Love and Christians

[frogboy4]

It's right when there's another life in the picture that is being snuffed out.

Come on, now. That's ugly rhetoric that won't solve anything. This is exactly why the Choice issue can't be discussed or remedied to anyone's satisfaction here or in this country. Pro-Lifers will never back down from that point of view that the fetus' rights should legally come before the mother's and Pro-Choicers won't allow lawmakers to limit a woman's rights over her body whether she's pregnant or not.

And many pro life organizations do just that; I've even contributed to them.

I just don't trust where the money really goes with most organizations of that sort. If you really believe in helping out women in need, then you should do something about devoting some actual time to get it done right. The way you believe and the way you would do it. There's real change in doing something. I believe in doing what I can in a kind, caring and compassionate way instead of tossing money or talk at it. That's what I do in donating my creative services for many smaller LGBT causes.

Plus look at it this way. I've made my moral choice to support the legalization of gay marriage. And that means in turn I am working to deny others the right to oppose the legalization. I assume you wouldn't be against that...

Woah! Apples and cannonballs. Working for equal rights only denies bigots of their idealism.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Come on, now. That's ugly rhetoric that won't solve anything. This is exactly why the Choice issue can't be discussed or remedied to anyone's satisfaction here or in this country. Pro-Lifers will never back down from that point of view that the fetus' rights should legally come before the mother's and Pro-Choicers won't allow lawmakers to limit a woman's rights over her body whether she's pregnant or not.

I respect your right to disagree with me. But I don't take it back; that is how I feel. Where would be today if the abolitionists had back down? And I never, ever say that the fetus' rights should come before the mother's. I say they should be equal, because they are both equally human.

I just don't trust where the money really goes with most organizations of that sort. If you really believe in helping out women in need, then you should thing about devoting some actual time to get it done right.

Fair enough, and I do hope I can get that opportunity to do more than just donate.

Woah! Apples and cannonballs. Working for equal rights only denies bigots of their idealism

Well from my point of view, by being pro life, I am working for equal rights. Just as you are working for equal rights with gay marriage.

 

[CensoredAlso]

If a person can't take care of a baby and grow it into a productive adult ... that person should not be dumping that problem on us ... AND the kid.

"Some say our world is getting too small. I say with kindness there's room for us all."

I agree that people shouldn't be irresponsible with their sex lives if they can't support a child. But once the child happens, I don't believe it should be punished through abortion for the mistakes of the parent.

And as a pro life person, I am very much pro woman. Women are under so much pressure in society, and with very little help from men, communities or the government. Abortion is a side effect of that. Therefore I do not see it as a woman's friend. It's just another aspect of oppression.

 

[BenjaminJ]

I am studying to be a pastor and I wanted to share somethings on here that have been on my heart!

This is my contribution to the IT GET'S BETTER campaign.
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQjqjhy997w

Here is my newest video on what it truly means to love others around us (no matter what)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw1PsVgnv2Q

I would really love to hear your feedback and stories!

Ok so first of all I am a christian...
but why is this on muppet central?
it has nothing to do with muppets
puppets
or jim hennson

Secondly I do get what youre saying,but I would look at it as if you dont love youre naybor as youreself like god would want then youre just fooling yourself and that god wants more of youre love for people .However I do believe that homosexuallity is a sin becuase it says so in the bible and discribes it as a abomination.
Ill definately have to read my bible more but what Ive said here is what I have read so there it is.
Good luck to you and youre ministry

 

[CensoredAlso]

Ok so first of all I am a christian...
but why is this on muppet central?
it has nothing to do with muppets
puppets
or jim hennson

The Friends and Family section would qualify as an "Off Topic" section.

 

[beaker]

I love that youtube video. He's so right...how the heck can you bring people to know Christ by saying they're evil, wicked, going to ****. That's why the world laughs at Western Christianity, it's so far removed from not just early Christianity but even Eastern and European Christianity. Christ should be a white buzzcut salesman with a briefcase and gun by the way some of these fundamentalists act.

I personally don't see why so many Christians hate Islamic countries and their ways, since they to see homosexuality as evil and sinful.

As far as what this thread is doing here...well, I get the feeling some Christians here feel they or their faith were unfairly being painted in a negative light and wanted to get back to basics. I agree, a lot of those on the left/atheist/agnostic side have painted this ugly broadstroke of Christians in general, when most my Christian friends who are deeply devout also hate the close minded fundamentalist attitude.

As far as abortion, I don't like that it's often mentioned in the same breath as gay rights. To me gay rights is no different than black civil rights. Whereas I 100% can understand the Christian viewpoint of abortion. Abortion is grotesque, disturbing and psychologically
destructive in many cases. The original abortion rights advocates were racists who setup abortion clinics in poor inner cities in the 1920's and 1930's not out of charity, but as experiments in eugenics. Still, politically I can't side with the pro life side for fear of being social pariah with my fellow liberals. And obviously, if a woman has an obviously malformed fetus thats a threat to her life, I can see where abortion should be allowed.

Now I understand many Muppet fans are Christians. Jim Henson obviously meant for the Muppets to be enjoyed by everyone, and made even Jewish specials for Sesame Street. Yet I also realize many Christian Muppet fans have problems with homosexuals or at least the belief practicing homosexuals even in committed love filled relationships is a sin. I would remind them that a lot of people both in front of the camera and behind the camera with the Muppets and Jim Henson company are/were very much gay. I mean...its a show about flamboyant colorful musicals...the Muppets are about as "gay" culture wise as it gets, and are loved and celebrated by the LGBT community just like everyone else.

 

[frogboy4]

Wish that there were a dislike button on the new Muppet Central, but I'll be nice and not respond to the new member. Welcome anyway. We're all Muppet fans here and you do know that the guy that gave us Scooter, Beaker, Statler, Sweetums, Jr. Gorg, Janice, the Two-Headed Monster and countless other iconic Muppet characters was a gay man so please tone down the abomination rhetoric. This is a space for all people.

I respect your right to disagree with me.

agreed

Well from my point of view, by being pro life, I am working for equal rights. Just as you are working for equal rights with gay marriage.

I disagree with the entirety of what's being said in this comment so let's call that a stalemate and move on.

 

[CensoredAlso]

The original abortion rights advocates were racists who setup abortion clinics in poor inner cities in the 1920's and 1930's not out of charity, but as experiments in eugenics.

Thank you for mentioning that; it's not brought to light often enough.

Still, politically I can't side with the pro life side for fear of being social pariah with my fellow liberals.

If they're really liberal, they wouldn't be intolerate of opposite points of view.

I recall reading about a man who was very eager to support Darwin when the theory of evolution originally went public. But he became concerned when we he saw evolutionists taking the opportunity to bash religion. While this man truly did believe in evolution, he didn't feel he could be a part of such a movement that was so hostile to the things he held dear. If these evolutionists hadn't been so intolerant, they would have gotten this man's support.

I believe in evolution, btw. But I still see this kind of attitude today in the Democratic party. They want to get votes, but then they turn around and bash people for things like religion. And then they wonder why those same religious people aren't voting for them, lol. You don't get support by insulting people. I can't believe they even need to be told this! Lol

And obviously, if a woman has an obviously malformed fetus thats a threat to her life, I can see where abortion should be allowed.

Overwhelming, this is not why abortions are typically performed.

I disagree with the entirety of what's being said in this comment so let's call that a stalemate and move on.

Fine with me.

I would remind them that a lot of people both in front of the camera and behind the camera with the Muppets and Jim Henson company are/were very much gay. I mean...

Well I am a member of the RHLC after all.

 

[beaker]

It's hard to get to know Christ, or at least the concept of Christ with all the noise and chatter out there. To take the story as analog or simple allegory, Jesus of Nazarene sounds like an amazing person. Fundamentally I just feel modern North American Christiandom is so far removed from that original kernel of truth or enlightenment...and I don't exactly square blame on reformation splits or any of that. I just think things get lost in the shuffle, in the folly of man and man laws. I am absolutely curious what Christ would have to say on the current state of things. I consider myself a friend of Christianity, even if I am not an ascribed Christian myself or of any specific faith. So polarized, politicized and deconstructed to death it's hard to get a real gauge sometimes on the meaning of the early implication of Christ's word.

My heart absolutely sinks at the very notion of elective abortion, especially with a beating heart. You have these choicer extremists who think elective abortion should be legal at any stage. I find it strange how much a champion of black and minority abortion the left often is; at once claiming to be pillars of civil rights yet decreeing only people of a specific economic standing befit fit for child rearing. I just, I don't know...some of the liberal stuff seems a bit duplicitous. I would be absolutely devastated if a person I was with wanted an elective abortion, so I think real life consequences of intimacy should always be discussed with a potential partner.

I really dig you Heralde. To me you seem exemplary of the sort of Christians I look up too and greatly admire. And as much as I know we kind of rag on people who take issue with homosexuality...as much as I am out front with my support of gay issues, I also recognize that it's not our place to force that view on others. Many black, hispanic, white, and other people of Christian or Abrahamic faiths have not reached the point of gay acceptance...even if they are well meaning people. I wish not to demonize these folks. My personal belief is that it is permiscuity that would be frowned upon, not a committed loving relationship between two men or two women. Simply normal people who have no anomaly in their identity or sexual makeup, who just arrive at a different gender preference. I also think intersex people or people outside the binary gender are not a mistake or aberation of nature, but more color amongst a pastiche of mankind.

 

[CensoredAlso]

It's hard to get to know Christ, or at least the concept of Christ with all the noise and chatter out there.

I actually think it's always been a hard time for Christ's original message, lol. It's just not an easy lifestyle to follow. It comes more naturally to us to be spiteful and greedy than it does to forgive our enemies and not seek material wealth.

I find it strange how much a champion of black and minority abortion the left often is; at once claiming to be pillars of civil rights yet decreeing only people of a specific economic standing befit fit for child rearing.

It really makes me sad that they don't see the problem with that. There are some pro choicers that basically advocate that only the poor should have abortions. As though the wealthy are automatically more worthy of being parents simply because they can afford to (ha!). I think some of this is a symptom of how we don't discuss the class issue we have in this country. We all try to sweep it under the rug and pretend it's not there.

I just, I don't know...some of the liberal stuff seems a bit duplicitous.

If you makes you feel any better, some of the conservative stuff seems a bit duplicitous too. Lol

I would be absolutely devastated if a person I was with wanted an elective abortion, so I think real life consequences of intimacy should always be discussed with a potential partner.

Yeah for my part I say, "I understand you're concerned about not being able to support a child. So please, please just don't get pregnant in the first place!"

I really dig you Heralde. To me you seem exemplary of the sort of Christians I look up too and greatly admire.

Aw thank you, and I feel the same way about you as a liberal person. I don't know what the heck I am frankly; my liberals friends say I'm conservative and my conservative friends say I'm liberal, lol. But they say that's a good thing on Law & Order, lol. Personally I liked it when the guys on Tough Pigs used the phrase "Hippie Christian" in one of their Muppet reviews, I think I'll go with that, lol.

Many black, hispanic, white, and other people of Christian or Abrahamic faiths have not reached the point of gay acceptance...even if they are well meaning people.

I think this is important to remember with any controversial issue. For the most part, people are well meaning and just trying to do what they think is right (even if they're wrong, lol). And there's something beautiful about everybody, even when they're wrong. And there's nothing to say they won't change their minds somewhere down the line. Or that you'll discover a different point of view. We're all just on a journey of life and learning things as we go.

I think of it like a TV series or movie. The main character doesn't start out as knowing everything and always making the right choices. It's watching them go through the journey and developing themselves that makes the story and the ending worthwhile. So why should real life be viewed any differently?