Seven Years Later: Disney buys Muppets and Bear

[frogboy4]

Right and that's definitely not what I've been saying. Bananasketch explained it very well, to say a film has a specific religion's themes does not imply it's partial to that religion. There have always been literary or pop culture stories with religious themes, it's a good storytelling device with ideas of drama, morality and redemption. That doesn't mean it's attempting to exclude anyone.

It's true that early Disney films were made in a very different world where inclusivness was not the norm. But we, the audience of today, are not from that world, we are from the modern world and we say a Disney film has Christian themes, that's all we are saying. We are not saying other religions are excluded.

I still don't think that many of the themes you're speaking of were specifically intended to be Christian, but I'm sure it was known that the morality of particular movies fell in line with Christian morality and that was probably intentional. I guess we're saying the same thing. I don't recall any Disney specials like the Peanuts gave us.

Narnia as mentioned before and that's a great example of Disney's modern inclusiveness on every step of production. The book definitely has an inherently Christian theme and it wasn't hidden in the film. I think they chose the title due to its popularity and not necessarily its spirituality, yet that remained intact. Also, the franchise's executive producer was an openly gay fiction writer. He unfortunately passed away this weekend and I hadn't realized that Perry Moore was on the Narnia team until reading his obit, but that's really froggin' cool to me.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I still don't think that many of the themes you're speaking of were specifically intended to be Christian.

Well the Johnny Appleseed cartoon unmistakably was, have you ever seen it? That's probably as close to the Peanuts special vibe that a Disney cartoon ever got. But yes obviously most Disney films were not blatently talking about religion. But that's not what people are saying. People are simply noting when a film contains themes from their religion. Any religion can and does do that and there's nothing wrong with that, that is not supremism. But I agree, we are probably saying the same thing. A lot of it comes down to semantics.

The book definitely has an inherently Christian theme and it wasn't hidden in the film.

Well at the same time I do want to also point out that just because a book or a film doesn't spell it out the way Narnia does, doesn't mean it lacks religious themes. Tolkien intended for Lord of the Rings to have Christian themes, he was just more subtle about it than Lewis because he wasn't writing for kids.

Also, the franchise's executive producer was an openly gay fiction writer. He unfortunately passed away this weekend and I hadn't realized that Perry Moore was on the Narnia team until reading his obit, but that's really froggin' cool to me.

That's really interesting, I didn't know that! That's a shame that he passed away, I'll try to find his obit as well.

I actually haven't read the Narnia books and only saw one of the films (and only because my family wanted to see it, heh). I enjoyed one of the cartoons versions as a kid though, dark but entertaining. But in the end I guess I was always more of a Tolkien person even as a kid, lol.

 

[beaker]

I’m 37 years old ... a child of the seventies and eighties as many others here, I’m sure. If you were as lucky as me, your parents raised you in the proverbial “warm and loving nest” and you have fond memories of your childhood. That “warm nest feeling” has inevitably become associated with whatever I was busy with at the time. That explains to me why I remember the Muppets so fondly. It is not just about their comical genius, but the childhood memories and the nostalgia I have thinking back about them.

But today I’m 37 years old and nothing like the child anymore that I used to be. Okay, almost nothing like that child anymore ... ... At any rate, what I’m trying to say is that I cannot hold Disney alone responsible for the way the Muppets “changed” for me. Part of that is just due to me ... I have grown up; I look at them completely different than when I was a kid. All too often, you’ll find that the new stuff will not bring you that “childish excitement” anymore. But is that abnormal? I don’t think so. I hope not, really.

I just turned 33...and strangely, I feel ever more a strong connection and interest to things I grew up with as a child. I've been able to table my modern grown up responsibilities and needs with a sort of kinship toward various things that inspired me as a child. So while I feel a thousand times wiser, complete and aware than I did growing up...and certainly, the magic or whatever you want to call it is not as strong, I feel I can almost still see some things with the same excitement I had. Albeit, slightly different.

There's a great Gonzo song in TMM called "Im Gonna go Back There Someday", and that's how I feel...mixed with the Magic Store and Rainbow Connection lyrics(hence why I feel that movie resonates so strong with us)

 

[Yorick]

You guys see the genius of Jim Henson and his legacy.

This entire post really said it all, and it's so true. I just didn't quote all of it since it's only a few posts away. But right on

 

[Drtooth]

I still fail to see where this Christian stuff comes in. Seems like whoever posted that just had a vendetta against The Lion King.

Now, I'm going to have to start a conversation about Disney movies here.

Let's face it, Jim Henson, Walt Disney... when someone who founded and created an entertainment company, even a small one, when that person dies it's ALWAYS a struggle to get things back to normal. Or even passable.

Disney had a lot of problems trying to recreate the success of the earlier films in the 70's and 80's. There were some good films then, don't get me wrong. I find Oliver and Company and The Great Mouse Detective highly underrated. And we forget, even though it was halfsies with Amblin, Roger Rabbit came out of that era. But Disney didn't reach the heights of animated film (after Disney) until The Little Mermaid. Then it was hit after hit until Pocahontas. Then they got cocky and made hit or miss stuff like Hercules (which I personally love, though the romantic subplot seemed forced) and Hunchback of Notre Dame (why was that decidedly a good idea for a kid's movie?) And Disney got stuck with unsellable Quasimodo dolls for years later. It took Lilo and Stitch (an original story line with original characters) to really get them out of the dumps, only to make Home on the Range and derail their 2-D with it.

Now, Lion King? Schmaltz, hooey whatever? That's hooey. It's a very dark film, probably darker than Bambi (Bambi's mom died because of hunters... Mufasa dies in diabolical political intrigue). Plot and substance behind, it was a HUGE success. The movie spawned 2 DTV's and an animated series. Only Aladdin, the Little Mermaid (though, movie "3" was too far into production to stop) and Lilo and Stitch (which had 3 DTV's... 2 of the animated series) had that distinction. I don't count Tarzan, one of the DTV's was episodes of the show... Beauty and the beast had a movie with unsold pilot episodes and one Christmas special. But face it, when Disney has a success, it milks that success for all it's worth. Movies Mermaid- Lion King were huge successes in their own right.

 

[CensoredAlso]

If we're putting our two cents in about Lion King, I was never impressed with the cartoon. Didn't care about the characters, it was only slightly less pretentious than Pocahontas, IMO.

However I found the Broadway musical version of Lion King absolutely breath taking and much more emotional. I've seen a lot of Broadway plays and this was the first one that genuinely made me cry, in a good way.

 

[Drtooth]

Yeah, but compared to the mind erasing Home on the Range movie and the historically inaccurate preachiness of Pocahontas, anything else is heavenly.

But with Lion King, it's not so much the story and the characters that should be impressive... but rather that it was successful enough to have a successful Broadway musical, 2 movies, a cartoon series, all that stuff. Right along side some of the more successful ones done during Disney's time, movies Little Mermaid- Lion King were smash successes on all counts. Aladdin is the only of the three that doesn't have a musical yet (though I hear they tried)... And Little Mermaid wasn't a musical until decades after... can't remember if Beauty and the Beast or Lion King came first musical wise. Lilo and Stitch was the last major 2-D/non-Pixar success they had. And success doesn't have to mean "good" it has to mean profitable (loved that movie, though). What other Disney movie had not only an American cartoon series, but a different Japanese anime as well?

I swear they were just coasting with Brother Bear and Home on the Range, stalling the inevitable...they said, "okay! These are our last movies... let's not care about them!" Though, BB did Native American legend better than that OTHER movie.

 

[CensoredAlso]

But with Lion King, it's not so much the story and the characters that should be impressive... but rather that it was successful enough to have a successful Broadway musical, 2 movies, a cartoon series, all that stuff.

Well the Brady Bunch had a ton of spin offs too, doesn't mean they were any good, hehe. But yes I'm glad the cartoon was successful enough to warrant a much better Broadway musical.

 

[Puckrox]

Well the Brady Bunch had a ton of spin offs too, doesn't mean they were any good, hehe. But yes I'm glad the cartoon was successful enough to warrant a much better Broadway musical.

Agreed. Take Little Mermaid. Little Mermaid had a Broadway musical based off of it, but that didn't mean that the musical wasn't horrendously awful.

I'm fairly certain the Beauty and the Beast broadway show came before Lion King.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Weeeeelll....in defense of The Lion King cartoon, I did enjoy the soundtrack, definitely gorgeous (makes sense of course, Elton John!).