Seven Years Later: Disney buys Muppets and Bear

[beaker]

Yeah, but that's an incredible stretch! Entertainment reflects societal times and Disney didn't play the God card any more than other studios. In fact, I think they played it a little less.

(the off-topic bit) I understand the call for tolerance, yet I don't think that giving different points of view equal time rather than an individual spotlight is anti-tolerance toward already well-exposed religious ideals. That claim to me is as ludicrous as if Lady Gaga complained about not getting enough press coverage because she isn't front and center on the cover of every magazine and that some people choose not to publicize her at all. Her persona isn't being hidden and neither is Christianity. No one wants to hear the popular kids cry foul over not getting their fair share. I believe that with every fiber of my being. This faux culture war is being fought in the delusional minds of some Christian folk who cannot fathom true oppression. That is a common sense point that I'll never abandon no matter how the counter-argument is shaped.

I guess to bring this back to the point - the Muppets have always been able to reference God without getting preachy or alienating others. It's still an all-inclusive brand...and I think it's cute that Zoot is Jewish!

Isn't Crazy Harry a Muslim? Oh I kid, I kid.

I'm not sure what the message of Disney films are, I just see it as pretty solid entertainment with adventure. Never notice dany Christian themes, But that's my take. And that's the great thing about being able to infer interpretations from things.
A charge I see leveled against classic Disney is racism, citing Song of the South...tho people forget the movie was about combating reconstruction era racism.

In America we have the luxury to be of any religion or no religion.
Elsewhere in the world, like in the Middle East, people get punished or even imprisoned for being anything other than Islamic(and even then it has to be a specific strain)
In China, all religion is banned...Christians, Buddhists, and Muslims routinely get rounded up or beaten.
In some parts of the world, still some 70 years removed from WW2, simply being Jewish is a very dangerous thing.

So we definitely need to have tolerance, and heck I loved seeing those Jewish Sesame specials. I also appreciate difficult but necessary films like The World According To Sesame Street which shows how Sesame Workshop has been able to go into very challenging areas of the world to bring a ray of hope.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Never notice dany Christian themes

Again, I was not labeling Disney a "Christian studio." I'm saying that it's not true that they didn't have religious themes. They did, often, and in good taste. And not just because society demanded it.

In America we have the luxury to be of any religion or no religion. Elsewhere in the world, like in the Middle East, people get punished or even imprisoned for being anything other than Islamic(and even then it has to be a specific strain)
In China, all religion is banned...Christians, Buddhists, and Muslims routinely get rounded up or beaten.
In some parts of the world, still some 70 years removed from WW2, simply being Jewish is a very dangerous thing.

I do think we Americans have a tendency to forget just how fortunate we are, despite our own problems.

 

[frogboy4]

No offence but it's not a stretch. Disney didn't have to make those references, no one was forcing them. I'm not saying they were a super religious studio, but they certainly did incorporate religion into their messages, more than once.



But all the different points of view aren't being given equal time, or even any time. We've gone from one religion having the center stage, to you can't talk about any religion at all, period. It's being called tolerance but it's anything but. I'd love to see actual tolerance with multiple points of view, but we're too busy thinking that means getting rid of everything.

No offense taken, but I completely reject your point and premise in its entirety. I think we live in a much more tolerant place than we did when I was a kid and the many years of America before that. I hear religious stuff of all sorts all the time and this is San Francisco! We're known for our hedonism. There's really nothing in what you've just stated that I can support in any way so I'll move back to topic.

 

[RedPiggy]

But all the different points of view aren't being given equal time, or even any time. We've gone from one religion having the center stage, to you can't talk about any religion at all, period.

You know, my mother and I have been watching Stargate SG1 on Netflix. For any not in the know, the basic gist is that the gods of humans were really aliens of various sorts. We've seen at least Egyptian and Norse pantheons mentioned. The funny thing is, I don't recall at any point, even toward the end of all the Stargate series, where you've got "ascended" types trying to destroy the world with more Christian themes (you need an Ark to destroy them, etc), there seems to be ONE god not really mentioned as an alien of any sort, at least not that I recall. Is it because the shows didn't want to go there, or is it because if they went there, they'd be flamebroiled to a crisp? Sometimes, I don't think it's about trying to hide something as people don't want to see it. Muslims aren't the only ones who can get all ticky about the portrayal of God. I've seen people comment on internet videos who flamebroil comedic portrayals of the bible, calling these folks all kinds of names, completely unaware that, sarcastic as the tone may be, a lot of those ugly things mentioned actually DID happen. But that's not what they want to hear. They want the sterilized Cliff Notes version, where everyone is happy and the only ones who aren't were just evil monsters anyway. So, honestly, I can see why a lot of shows might keep blatant references to the dominant cultural tradition to a minimum. Just because it's the most popular doesn't mean all those people are well-educated in the topic.

And when they are mentioned, I'm not seeing a representation of a variety of points of view, that's still very rare.

Is it necessary to slap on the religous label, or can one agree that many morals are shared among different groups? I mean, does the Golden Rule HAVE to be signed off by Jesus, or can it be kept neutral because, after all, He's hardly the first nor the last to think of it?

I'm just trying to imagine where there aren't "many points of view". How so? In just about every series I've ever watched, from Gunsmoke to LOST, there are "many points of view". The only time, though, they seem to mention a specific tradition at all is when it's probably a group the mainstream's never heard of or knows little about (though I've seen studies to suggest that mainstream actually knows VERY little about just about everyone).

Disney has gotten the reputation for preachiness but I think that's mainly from recent years.

Well, there's a difference between mentioning God in a story that clearly takes place in a Christian nation (like Sword in the Stone -- or, rather, one still on the fence) and preaching specifically from that tradition. There's Sword in the Stone and then there's Hunchback of Notre Dame. The latter is really overt ... aaaaaaand probably should have stopped while it was ahead.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I think we live in a much more tolerant place than we did when I was a kid and the many years of America before that....There's really nothing in what you've just stated that I can support in any way

I definitely agree that we're more tolerant than we used to be (I have no problem supporting parts of what you've stated ). I just think we're not done yet. We're still struggling to figure out what tolerance actually means.

And I apologize for the snarkiness. Again, no offence intended, it's just a debate.

Well, there's a difference between mentioning God in a story that clearly takes place in a Christian nation (like Sword in the Stone -- or, rather, one still on the fence) and preaching specifically from that tradition.

As a Christian, I wouldn't mind if another religion preached specifically from its tradition. There's nothing wrong with other religions doing that and there's nothing wrong with Christians doing that. For that matter, there's nothing wrong with athiests doing it. THAT'S what tolerance is all about. Again, something we're still struggling to actually make a reality.

 

[frogboy4]

I definitely agree that we're more tolerant than we used to be (I have no problem supporting parts of what you've stated ). I just think we're not done yet. We're still struggling to figure out what tolerance actually means.

And I apologize for the snarkiness. Again, no offence intended, it's just a debate.



As a Christian, I wouldn't mind if another religion preached specifically from its tradition. There's nothing wrong with other religions doing that and there's nothing wrong with Christians doing that. For that matter, there's nothing wrong with athiests doing it. THAT'S what tolerance is all about. Again, something we're still struggling to actually make a reality.

Tolerance is not acceptance of a belief. It's merely accepting the right of others to follow it without enforcing personal judgment. That's a good thing in my book. However, that sometimes gets confused by all groups as the need for personal conversion in order to be tolerant. That is not so and never should be.

Case and point, one young pop star just stated his belief that being gay is a choice and that womens' reproductive rights shouldn't be. He was certainly baited and maybe he misspoke. I kind of figure the statement wasn't fully formed or thought through. Maybe he didn't misspeak and he was expressing his right to disagree with people. He's a self-professed role model so that topic will be explored. It's fine if fans stop buying his records because of it. It doesn't mean they're intolerant of his views that he has every right to state. Some people don't want to line the wallets of influential people with whom they disagree. That's why we don't usually know people's point of view no matter what it may be. It alienates others. There are carefully crafted ways to state one's beliefs that minimize such alienation and that's always been the case.

Being thoughtful (not PC or unPC) should be a way of life for everyone. To me that's the Muppety method and one I hope and believe will continue under Disney ownership. They can get away with a lot of things and let's hope they continue to do so with the heart that always remains intact.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Being thoughtful (not PC or unPC) should be a way of life for everyone. To me that's the Muppety method and one I hope and believe will continue under Disney ownership. They can get away with a lot of things and let's hope they continue to do so with the heart that always remains intact.

And again, we don't disagree on this point and we never have.

If I know the pop star you're referring to, heh, I disagree with him on one issue, but agree with him on the other (I won't get into which, hehe). But anyway I understand if some people are intolerant of his views, that's their right too. There are occasions where intolerance is a good thing. Well you know what I mean, for instance, I'm intolerant of racism and that's a good thing because in this country, we consider racism an evil.

I'm not sure I said that perfectly, but we're probably just playing with semantics anyway!

 

[Starchamberfall]

The Disney ethos was Christian. The morality inculcated over and over again in the films and T.V. shows was Christian. Sort of a Christian humanism. Hope was part of the fun. A core message was that you could live (really live) and be good. And share, and grow. Then you had Pinnochio, which is maybe the best redemption tale on-screen of the last century, with a resurrection at the end.

Which is not to say that non-Christian companies, or non-Jewish film companies are bad. Au contraire! Vive la différence.

My own hopes for the Muppets are maybe too high, and I guess I wanted a new home for them as good as Jim Henson's own hands, which to me would necessitate being true to your roots as a studio - whatever those roots are.

 

[CensoredAlso]

The Disney ethos was Christian. The morality inculcated over and over again in the films and T.V. shows was Christian. Sort of a Christian humanism. Hope was part of the fun. A core message was that you could live (really live) and be good. And share, and grow. Then you had Pinnochio, which is maybe the best redemption tale on-screen of the last century, with a resurrection at the end.

I agree there's a lot of Christian themes in Disney films and Christians can learn a great deal from them. There's nothing wrong with that. And that doesn't mean it's not for other religions. A Buddhist might say there's a lot of Buddhist themes in Disney films that Buddhists can learn from. It's the same thing.

That said, I wouldn't label Disney a Christian company, that's all.

 

[frogboy4]

Christian Supremecy hasn't ever been a Disney Value

I can agree that many Disney films past and present have themes that are inclusive to Christian values, but they were never beholden to them. Any idea that they were or are smacks of religious narcissism. And such narcissism is creepy and isn't a Christian value as I understand it.

Disney classic films, including the Aristocats, have racially insensitive segments that contradict modern values. While I'm not a big fan of political correctness, I'm glad Disney has become more sensitive to minorities of all sorts. I'm also glad they've largely left these old works unedited so we can be aware of how far we've come. The company wasn't perfect in Walt's day and it isn't perfect now. Some fans look back with nostalgic rose-tinted glasses.

Many of Disney's classic films, just like other good cinema, act as litmus tests that we connect with through our own personal levels. I believe that's intended, but not as any particularly literal statement of fact or endorsement of religious dogma.