The Bible and Love and Christians

[frogboy4]

Catholicism advocates good works before faith. Not that faith isn't important. But that Jesus' entire ministry was focused on actively doing God's work, not just believing in him.

I think both should be important, but I'm not a Catholic, of course!

I'm not a big advocate of religion, but I do support the personal journey one has with their faith. Is it weird that, for example, I separate the individual Catholic from Catholicism and separate that from the Catholic Church at large? I do that with all religion. There's the person, their belief and then the machinery around it. I choose to believe in the person and leave the rest of it alone. Peoples is peoples.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I think both should be important, but I'm not a Catholic, of course!

Personally I think South Park said it best, "God doesn't want you to spend all your time being afraid of **** or praising His name. God wants you to spend your time helping others, and living a good, happy life. That's how you live for Him."

Is it weird that, for example, I separate the individual Catholic from Catholicism and separate that from the Catholic Church at large? I do that with all religion.

No it's not weird, you should do that with every group, including political parties.

 

[Drtooth]

All faiths have a rich cultural tapestry, and I find it unfortunate people are resigned to not learning about other faiths(sadly there is a segment of Christians whose only interest in Judaism and Israel comes from a belief that it falls into end time prophecy, not out of a genuine love or respect for the people)

End of timers scare me. I have problems with fanatics, but end of timers... they're almost like those cults that made all their members commit suicide because a comet may or may not hit or pass by and open some interdimensional whatever. It's not just the people waiting for it, but I believe a small portion of that wants to hurry things along. And this all, again, comes from the misconception that afterlife is a reward, not a goal of set priorities. Wanting the end of days because you're waiting for something is ghoulish. No one wants small scales of death from disasters, why would anyone want a full planet destroyed? Aren't rational thinking people... I dunno.. kind of afraid that would happen?

 

[CensoredAlso]

Aren't rational thinking people... I dunno.. kind of afraid that would happen?

You don't hear about the rational religious people from the media. It's only the fanatics that make eye catching headlines.

Seriously, fanatics are by their nature outside the norm. They don't represent religious people in general. Yet that's all anyone hears about.

 

[RedPiggy]

Focusing on the End Times, in a thought I JUST had, LOL, is like level-skipping through a game just so you can "enjoy" the credits. The downside is that you never really could appreciate the GAME. Even if there's an Easter Egg epilogue after the credits, it really does you no good unless you took the time to play.

 

[dwayne1115]

Agreed. My friend and I actually went to an inter-faith gathering in our community last year; it was a lot of fun. And my religion class in Middle School had an entire section on World Religions, which was fascinating. Well I was probably the only one who was fascinated, not because the other kids didn't care about other religions, but because they didn't care about school, period, lol.



Well I think what that verse is saying is people shouldn't boast of their good deeds in order to get to Heaven. They should just quietly do the good works. So it's about the dangers of pride, but it's not saying good works aren't the key.

Plus Ephesians, as I understand, comes from letters Paul wrote, not from Jesus himself. Paul was a great human being in many ways, but he wasn't the Son of God.

Well to me and this is just what i belive, but I feel that yes i want to serve the Lord, but it's not my works that will get me into Hevan. If that was the case then I think Jesus died in vain, because if my works saved me then i don't need Jesus.
Yes the book of Ephesians was writen by Paul to the church of Epheses, where the people of the chuch where getting boastful about the things that they where doing. They where putting all the light on them and takeing away the spotlight off of the Lord.

The verse "I can do all things through Christ which stenthings me" comes to mind here, The work they where doing was through the grace of God and they where forgeting that.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Well to me and this is just what i belive, but I feel that yes i want to serve the Lord, but it's not my works that will get me into Hevan. If that was the case then I think Jesus died in vain, because if my works saved me then i don't need Jesus.

But the thing is, if all we have to do is say "I've decided that I believe in Jesus" then why do we even have to do good works? Why did Jesus spend his entire ministry instructing people on the good works they had to do? Why didn't he just say "All you have to do is worship me?"

Yes the book of Ephesians was writen by Paul to the church of Epheses, where the people of the chuch where getting boastful about the things that they where doing. They where putting all the light on them and takeing away the spotlight off of the Lord.

Yes, he was saying don't be boastful. Makes sense to me. That doesn't mean he was saying the good works aren't important.

 

[dwayne1115]

Oh im not saying that works are not improtiant at all, I fermily belive that as a christians we should serve God. I don't have a Bible right in front of me so I'm trying to think off the top of my head the times Jesus told us to work. The things I most remember Jesus teaching was love. Love the Father Love others and Love yourself. Even most of his Paraples where on love and salvation,m I know I can think of sevral. Now I'm not saying that is not there I just don't remember it being there. Because see salvation comes from within, and that is where a lot of people (even me) get confused. It's easy to teach, preach fix the things on the outside, but God looks at the heart
I use to belong to a clut like church that was always teaching about the outward sins and outward works. The sins being things like drinking, smokeing etc, and the works being telling people about him. They never really taught on love, and it made me and others hard to find love in relationships we would be "jugding" the things they where doing, and we would say well they are not "saved". When I was in that chuch, I would preach, and tell people about the Lord. Deep down though my heart was not fully in it. It was real easy for me to turn it on and off, and being a christian should not be like that. When we have the true love for christ in our hearts it will make us want to serve him, and make us not want to do these outward sins i mentioned. It means being a chirstian inside and out.

But the thing is, if all we have to do is say "I've decided that I believe in Jesus" then why do we even have to do good works? Why did Jesus spend his entire ministry instructing people on the good works they had to do? Why didn't he just say "All you have to do is worship me?"



Yes, he was saying don't be boastful. Makes sense to me. That doesn't mean he was saying the good works aren't important.

 

[GonzoLeaper]

Nicely said, dwayne. The book of James talks a lot about this question. It makes quite clear that faith without works is dead. Basically- you can talk a good game, but if you don't have any good deeds to back it up, then your faith is worthless. Jesus did say in Matthew 7 that there would be many who will come to Him on the last day and say "Lord, Lord- didn't we do all these things in Your name?" And He'll tell them, "Truly, truly- I never knew you. The things you did were unauthorized. Depart from me."
Now that verse is not to say that works are what gets you into Heaven. Jesus also said that whoever hears His Word and believes God who sent Jesus has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. (John 5:24) In John 15, He makes it clear that Christians are to remain in Him. And if we're remaining in Him, we need to remain in His Word and obey Him. Jesus said that if we love Him, we'll obey Him. He said the two most important commands are to love God with all you've got and love your neighbor as yourself. He said the world will know we are Christians by our love. So if we're truly loving God and our neighbors, it will be evident by our obedience to God- which means being respectful to the elderly, treating everyone with love, kindness, gentleness and respect, doing everything without arguing or complaining, being patient, being a servant, giving to those in need joyfully, and many other fruits. (Galatians 5:22-23 talks about the fruit of the Spirit.) One of the best ways to think about this concept is that we are saved by the grace of God period. Through faith in Jesus' death and Resurrection, we have forgiveness from sins and an eternity in Heaven- when we trust Christ as Savior and ask Him to be Lord. When we truly do this, it entails changing from who we used to be into being more like Christ. He is the One who brings about a change in our hearts from the old man of sin to the new nature of the Spirit. When we live by The Spirit, we see the good works evident as the fruit of the Spirit in our lives. (Ephesians 2:8-10 is great for explaining this. After getting saved by grace through faith in Christ alone, God's purpose for us in doing that is to do the good works He had prepared in advance for us to do- not that those works do anything towards our salvation- but they are the natural response of gratitude that should flow from a heart that's been set free by Jesus and a heart that wants to follow and serve Jesus. And it does serve as evidence that God is truly in us and moving in us.)
This style of music may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I thought some might appreciate these two songs that sum up what I was saying pretty succinctly. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoVWo7YeO4w)
(This is a song called "More Than Works" by ApologetiX- they're a Christian parody band- and it really is better than you might think- this one is a parody of Extreme's "More Than Words")
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Nf2oGvJxqU)
(And this one is "Ephesians" by ApologetiX- a parody of "The Reason" by Hoobastank)
(Both songs are fun ways to quickly explain The Bible's teachings on the free grace and salvation Jesus offers.)

 

[dwayne1115]

You know and this is what i have really been learing here lattly is that Gos wants us to love people. I find that so hard sometimes, and sometimes i just forget. It's just like John 3:16 says He loved the world. Why? because he created it. so he sent his son Jesus to die and raise again. Why? When Jesus did this he became to everlasting sacrafice for everyone.

Jesus paid it all my friends. I was at church tonight and we talked on this very subject. We where looking in Romans 4 and it was talking about Abraham and how he had faith, before he ever did and works. You have to have faith, you have to have that personal relationship with the Lord or the work that your doing will sadly be in vain. I know that is harsh, but that is what the word of God says. I want to say that I love you all and hope that no one gets upset with what I have said.