The Bible and Love and Christians

[CensoredAlso]

I tend to agree with that and have always felt it off-putting when religious folk are preoccupied with the rapture/afterlife when 99.9% of their energy should be focused in this one.

I mostly dislike the Book of Revelations because it's filled with bizarre superstitions that had pretty much nothing to do with Jesus.

Regarding the afterlife, the idea is that it represents the spiritual aspects of our exists, as opposed to the current world which represents our material and petty desires. So I agree with striving for Heaven and all it represents. But of course, in order to do that you have to conduct yourself the way God wants in this life.

 

[frogboy4]

I mostly dislike the Book of Revelations because it's filled with bizarre superstitions that had pretty much nothing to do with Jesus.

Regarding the afterlife, the idea is that it represents the spiritual aspects of our exists, as opposed to the current world which represents our material and petty desires. So I agree with striving for Heaven and all it represents. But of course, in order to do that you have to conduct yourself the way God wants in this life.

I have a difficult time with any idea that motivates by either fear or reward. Doing what's right should be its own reward.

 

[GonzoLeaper]

Some people think that's non committal, but I say, only a Sith deals in absolutes.

I can't remember if I've said this here or somewhere else, but so does God.

I mostly dislike the Book of Revelations because it's filled with bizarre superstitions that had pretty much nothing to do with Jesus.

Interesting assessment of Revelation, but I can't say I agree. All of The Bible is the Word of God and this is God's revelation of the end of things on Earth and the eternal destiny for all, whether in Heaven or the fiery lake.
However, I also really get annoyed with people who preoccupy themselves so much with the end of time events as described in The Bible that they forget that Jesus said to occupy until He comes. The end will come when it comes. As Jesus told Peter, "What's that to you? You must follow me." (Okay, He didn't say that in this context, but I think the principle is still the same.) Focus on following Jesus faithfully and don't worry about the rest- God will take care of it in His time. Jesus Himself made it clear that no man knows the day or the hour of the end- only God The Father Himself.
So though Christians do live by faith and not by sight and are commanded to set our minds above and not on earthly things- we are also commanded to make the most of each day and show the love of God to all in real, practical ways.
And regarding that Youtube video, an atheist friend of mine has said that it is probably a "Poe's Law" video (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law) - in other words, a video made to parody Christians in the extreme.
That video made me sick as a Christian because that is SO NOT what Christianity is or looks like. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. What happened in Japan is a horrible tragedy and Christians should be motivated by the love of Christ to pray for the country and offer as much monetary and material aid as possible. And when people see real love like that in action, that will hopefully attract them to the Gospel of Christ and hopefully they will trust Him as Savior. But whether they do or not, Christians should still be there to offer aid and love and hope and encouragement. Take care of the physical needs and trust that God will give you opportunity to address the spiritual needs.
Anyway- that's all I wanted to say on that. It just disheartens me when the name of Jesus gets associated with acts that are SO NOT Christlike at all.
And as for the Westboro group- I don't even like to call them a church - because they sure don't act like the church of Christ. That is a horrible example- God loves everyone whether they believe in Him or not. He loves everyone no matter what they do and no matter who they are. Contrary to what Fred Phelps and his group tell you- God loves gays. God loves soldiers. God even loves the people of Westboro. God makes it clear that He is no sadist- He takes absolutely no pleasure in the death of the wicked- He only wants them to turn from their wicked ways and live. (my paraphrase of Ezekiel 18:23 - which I point out because it is in the Old Testament and a great example of the love God has in both The Old Testament and The New Testament.)
So anyway, yeah- please don't look to that group as an example of Christians. Jesus said the world will know His followers by their love for one another. And of course, He told us to love our neighbor as ourselves- so that means love everyone- no matter what.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I have a difficult time with any idea that motivates by either fear or reward. Doing what's right should be its own reward.

I don't really look at it as reward. More like taking responsibility for living a good life and realizing what's important. Like I said, the afterlife is symbolic of what's truly important, so that is what we should be striving for. So it's not seeking reward, it's simply having your priorities in order.

 

[Drtooth]

On another note, there's been a viral video on YouTube that i've found very offensive. I won't link to it because to me it's just so inflammatory, but it's some nit-wit girl in her 20's who thanks God for the tragedy in Japan because it "shook them" out of their Atheism and Godlessness. I know she's one of the rare loony birds, but you've got to think that there's some sort of group of these normal-seeming toxic folk that mar the perception of Christians as a whole. I just don't understand how anybody can be joyous over the deaths of other people no matter who they are or what they believe.

Yeah, isn't that what Mormon nationalist nutjob/ looney tune squalking head Glen Blechh said?

I'm sorry, there is NO love in hate, there is no closeness to God with hate, and frankly, I'd love all the families of the victims sue them both into the streets for such vile, nasty, xenophobic, UNCHRISTIAN hate mongering.

You know what the worst part is? It's unAmerican to do anything about it. That would be denying free speech (albiet from groups that want to curtail it, but make dang good use of it). That is a dangerous thing to think about And we can't even say they can't say that because then they'd call US out on it... so basically, we have to tolerate intolerance, and if we don't we're intolerant, and they call us out for it.

Secondly... Atheist? EXCUSE ME? There ARE Christian Japanese...anyone with a second grade education knows that! And the ones that don't? Well, that goes back to the country's isolation for several hundred years or so (can't remember any specifics) but they have their OWN religion. What really kills me is when any religion that isn't a specific one is "Atheism." That is not true to say the least.

I tend to agree with that and have always felt it off-putting when religious folk are preoccupied with the rapture/afterlife when 99.9% of their energy should be focused in this one.

That's the main problem I have with religion.. not one, not a specific few, but all of them. A vague reward at the end of life? Sure, I have a little problem with that logic... but when people use that as logic to be bigoted or at least holier than thou (hey.... I'm pretty sure that's how you LOSE your spot)... or worse... killing as many people as possible to get you a spot that wouldn't normally get for doing something.

So... to get to reward, you have to completely disregard all the guidelines because of misinterpreted footnotes? Really, making life heck (I HATE that we can't say the real one) on Earth for everyone else is NOT going to guarantee a spot up there...

 

[CensoredAlso]

That's the main problem I have with religion.. not one, not a specific few, but all of them. A vague reward at the end of life?

I think people misunderstand the idea of the afterlife. It's not about getting a reward. It's that you've made the decision to strive for a more spiritual existant. So to get to Heaven doesn't mean you were rewarded. It's that you had your priorities in order.

I don't mind people having problems with religion; everyone has a right to their opinion. But I think there's a lot of misunderstanding on both sides.

I'm all for having a debate with different sides on this thread. I don't want it to be a whitewash on religion. But I don't want it to be an all out attack on religion either. Neither prospect is particularly fair or tolerant.

 

[Drtooth]

I think people misunderstand the idea of the afterlife. It's not about getting a reward. It's that you've made the decision to strive for a more spiritual existant. So to get to Heaven doesn't mean you were rewarded. It's that you had your priorities in order.

That's exactly what I'm talking about... maybe I didn't make myself more specific, but the misconception that afterlife is a reward is what bugs me... even certain religious followers get that confused.

I take 90% of my beliefs from the series Dinosaurs... they said things that NEED to be said, and there was that episode where Ethyl saw the afterlife, and came back to tell about it... and everyone was watching the Ethyl show and buying afterlife real estate (cough cough... 1980's televangelists... cough cough) and after Ethyl's second near death experience, her late husband told her about how we have to focus on the life we're leading now, and the afterlife is essentially just that.

But it seems in the hands of the wrong people afterlife DID equal the word reward... again, that whole "You get to nail 47 virgins if you blow a bunch of women and children up" bit. Certain people romanticized the afterlife to the extent of it being a reward (what I really meant to say), and using that as leverage. And that's why things go so sour... the fact that certain followers can't distinguish priorities and reward.

 

[TheMonsterAteMe]

My view:

Jesus is constantly telling people not to judge unless you have a clean slate. Constantly. One of my favorite’s is when the religious leaders of the time came to him with a women that they had caught in adultery. They where ready to stone her in accordance to old laws and their traditions. They brought her to Jesus. Jesus looked at the men holding her and told them that the one who is without sin could throw the first stone at her and Jesus was the only one who was sinless. With that, the leaders let go of the women and walked away. And Jesus did not stone the women, he showed her love.

THE POINT: A fundamental cornerstone of a relationship in Jesus is admitting that we are all EQUALLY screwed up. The pastors, the priest, the deacons, the youth pastors, the Homosexuals, Charlie Manson, me, you.

Screwed up people cannot to Heaven because Heaven is the only place ANYWHERE where nothing is screwed up. If a screwed up person went into Heaven then part of Heaven would become screwed up bringing a bit of **** to Heaven.

God took pity on the fact that everyone was so screwed up so he sent someone who would not screw up (Jesus) to come to Earth and pay for everything screwed up and every screwed up person on the cross.

You accept that fact, and you have Christianity.

We are all equally screwed up. We only look like hypocritical fools when we point out how much others or a group of others are screwed up because we are just as screwed up as they are.

Therefor, there are only two true people groups to a Christians: Screwed up people who know Christ and screwed up people who don’t know Christ. The objective for a true Christian is to not point out how screwed up a non-Christian is, but rather to LOVE them with the love of Christ in such a powerful way that they want to know Christ.

I’ll end with this quote that has been going around: “God does not ask people to change. God accepts people as they are and then changes them for the better.”

 

[CensoredAlso]

That's exactly what I'm talking about... maybe I didn't make myself more specific, but the misconception that afterlife is a reward is what bugs me... even certain religious followers get that confused.

Gotcha, that makes sense. I think I also wasn't being clearly enough. I'm not here to deny that there is hypocrisy in religion. Of course there is. Where there's humans, you get hypocrisy. It just bothers me when most of the talk about religion in society is about the people who screw it up. You hear a ton about the radical evangelicals or some random person on YT spouting nonesense. And suddenly they're the prime example of religion. You never hear about the people who do get religion right and actually do good things with religion. And there certainly are many people like that. I'm not saying I'm always one of those people, lol. Just saying it's far from balance.

 

[RedPiggy]

I take 90% of my beliefs from the series Dinosaurs... they said things that NEED to be said, and there was that episode where Ethyl saw the afterlife, and came back to tell about it... and everyone was watching the Ethyl show and buying afterlife real estate (cough cough... 1980's televangelists... cough cough) and after Ethyl's second near death experience, her late husband told her about how we have to focus on the life we're leading now, and the afterlife is essentially just that.

I love you, LOL.

Anyway, just for fun, I want "The Ethyl Show" hymn played at my funeral. For kicks.

The funny thing about the Dinosaurian Afterlife is that, in all honesty, it's exactly as materialistic as the evangelical dino acted like (I tend to think of him as the original ancestor to Convincing John, LOL). I mean, you show up in what looks like a resort, for Heaven's sake. There are sales and ballgames and such. It harkens to afterlife ideas of going to a similar dimension, where you still live your life, just with less stress attached. Because the Afterlife couldn't pretend to be any more spiritual than the "now life", I think they drive the point home clearly that it's the loss of focus that's the problem.

I have issues with materialism/commercialism in religion, but, for some strange reason that boggles my mind, in Dinosaurs I don't mind it as much. They made it fairly consistent throughout. I want to write an essay on it, actually. Every single time something "sacred" has been shown on that show, it's materialistic. The Council of Elders waffle between creepy cave-dwelling robed figures to modern political trappings. When Baby was turned into a kind of Messiah, they sold Baby merchandise and everybody paid homage to him with plastic toy fire trucks. Fridge Day deserves a thesis, really. What should be crass, calling a mere electrical appliance sacred, actually makes sense in their paradigm. The fridge helped save their budding civilization and made it possible. It would be logical that they would honor it. Potato-ism also had its merchandise and books and such. I applaud Dinosaurs writers for making a parody that actually made sense within the universe. It's meant to be mocking, but there's a certain level of respect present that I find myself admiring.