Wocka-Wocka... He's at it again!

[spcglider]

Okay, pretend this guy lives in Singapore, if someone in the US decided to buy one of his replicas and have it sent to himself in the US, who would be commiting the crime?

The American. Beacuse then it would be considered IMPORTING copyright infringing materials. The American suddenly shoulders the burden for the infringement.

The person in Singapore walks free.

That's how it goes. Sadly.

-G

 

[Mistersuperstar]

So, really, laws aren't always there to deal with the criminals, just ignorant people who don't know any better.

 

[spcglider]

But how far can each of us be expected to go out of our way to prevent these things from happening? It would be like individuals policing the streets because the Police can't cope with all the work. I wouldn't expect somebody else to do my job, that I get paid for, just because they liked me.

None of us are EXPECTED to do a good deed. That's what makes it a good deed.

And as a matter of fact, here in the US, ther are MANY examples of people policing their own streets (within the extent of the law) to pick up the slack where the policemen can't handle the load. There are neighborhood associations, block clubs, and crime alert groups all over the country in every town in every state.

Which leads me to the question: When do YOU draw the line? Do you see someone getting hurt or robbed or even murdered and simply turn away and say to yourself "That's a police matter... nothing to do with me. I'm not getting paid to report that"? I hope not.

The fact of the matter is that the police DEPEND on people of good conscience to report things. That's how it works. That's why the 911 system exists.

-G

 

[spcglider]

So, really, laws aren't always there to deal with the criminals, just ignorant people who don't know any better.

Partially true. But justice tries to not punish people strictly for being ignorant. It may not be their fault that they are ignorant.

But justice DOES try to punish those of criminal intent and WILLFUL ignorance. Often they are one and the same.

-G

 

[Mistersuperstar]

Which leads me to the question: When do YOU draw the line? Do you see someone getting hurt or robbed or even murdered and simply turn away and say to yourself "That's a police matter... nothing to do with me. I'm not getting paid to report that"? I hope not.

Okay, if you see someone holding up a bank with a shotgun, do you jump in and help out and risk being shot and maybe killed in the process? If so, I think you are rather foolhardy. There are systems put in place to these kind of jobs so we don't have to put ourselves in danger. We can not be expected to take on the role of every law enforcement system that exists. We MUST draw a line. I don't hurt, rob or murder people, therefore I am doing my bit. I don't break the law, I don't cause problems for the police, therefore I am doing my bit. Everyone should be responsible for their own actions. If you have designed or created something, it is your responsiblity to protect it. If you find that someone is being unlawful towards you, you use the enforcement of the law to protect you from it or to bring those who have been unlawful to you to justice. That's why these services have been put in place and why the people who work there get paid.

 

[Mistersuperstar]

The fact of the matter is that the police DEPEND on people of good conscience to report things. That's how it works. That's why the 911 system exists.

Of course it is, but that is something that has been created for ease of use. Reporting a copyright violation is a completely different ball game. You can't dial 911 for that.

 

[Mistersuperstar]

Apologies, but I have to bow out of this discussion for a while, I have to catch up on some work.

 

[ravagefrackle]

But how about if he used the same design as the original "Matchbox" but didn't advertise it using the "Matchbox" name, is he still breaking the law? In other words, this guy who is creating rip-off Muppet relicas, if he created an exact replica of a Muppet but didn't advertise it as a Muppet but gave it his own name, would he still be breaking the law?

yes, yes he would still be breaking the law

 

[Telly]

So say Larry builds custom replicas of Muppets. He builds them for himself. He's not breaking the law.
Larry builds one for me and only charges me enough to make no profit from it. He's breaking the law.
^Thants not sinking into my brain as to how that's illegal^

No need to explain everything again. I've read and re-read. I've had different people tell me different things. It's not a matter I care to actually research either.

Say the Sue's Grandma Betty is on her deathbed with only days to live and has always wanted a pink ROLEX watch. Rolex doesn't make pink watches. One day Sue's walking down the street and a guy happens to have a knock-off version of ROLEX he's selling that look VERY close to the real thing. Suprise! Suprise! One of them is pink! Should Sue pass just because ROLEX wasn't keen enough to make a pink watch? Will Grandma Betty never get a pink Rolex? Dun Dun DUN!

I still stick with my "If the mass isn't going to market something, people will eventually get it somewhere. Lawful or not."

 

[spcglider]

Okay, if you see someone holding up a bank with a shotgun, do you jump in and help out and risk being shot and maybe killed in the process? If so, I think you are rather foolhardy. There are systems put in place to these kind of jobs so we don't have to put ourselves in danger. We can not be expected to take on the role of every law enforcement system that exists. We MUST draw a line.

Agreed. And you don't see me tracking down Muppet counterfitters and using my mighty hand of justice to smite them, do you? That's the job of Disney's lawyers and the court system.

And I would never suggest that you should put yourself in danger to do right... that's a decision for you to make. But how dangerous is it to pick up the phone and inform the police that someone is committing a crime? Especially when you aren't involved and are simply an observer?

But I can be here, discussing the topic, dispelling myths about IP rights and attempting to inform people so they don't go around thinking that infringing on somebody's intellectual property is a good or admirable thing.

And, when someone is willfully ignoring the law, I can do a good deed and let the rights holders know they are being infringed upon.

I don't hurt, rob or murder people, therefore I am doing my bit. I don't break the law, I don't cause problems for the police, therefore I am doing my bit. Everyone should be responsible for their own actions.

I agree, if only in a complete isolationist view. What you describe is the absolute minimum a person can do outside of paying their taxes on time and voting. The problem is that you expect everyone to have the same attitude in order for society to function. And we know that just isn't possible. In a perfect world, that plan would work. But we don't live in a perfect world. There are people who purposely prey upon others for personal gain. They aren't just minding their own business. And sadly, the police are not all-seeing. So a certain involvement from the populace is required in order to quell entropy.

If you have designed or created something, it is your responsiblity to protect it. If you find that someone is being unlawful towards you, you use the enforcement of the law to protect you from it or to bring those who have been unlawful to you to justice. That's why these services have been put in place and why the people who work there get paid.

And when you aren't aware of the problem? What then? Tough cookies? You lose because you just aren't vigilant enough? If that were the case throughout human history, and people didn't have a natural tendency to care about and look after each other, we'd never have formed the first tribe and eventually created the society and culture that we now enjoy. That's called The Social Contract and it is a nearly universal constant in human culture.

In short: No man is an island.

-G