Wocka-Wocka... He's at it again!

[Kevin the Frog]

Muppet Central and MuppetCast both play full songs, not just 30 second clips. Fan site or no fan site, that would be copyright infringement as far as I know. Podcast owners struggle to find original music that is good to use on their shows (intros, outros, etc), because they can't use copyrighted music.

Gordon, I'm not trying to imply that you are doing too little to fight against Muppet copyright violation. I just was keeping the discussion going, and seeing if you are against all types of muppet copyright violation. I assume you never watch muppet youtube videos, listen to muppet radio, download muppet mp3s, copy muppet dvds or vhs tapes, listen to muppet cast podcasts, photocopy pages from a muppet book, quote muppet related full articles from a newspaper or magazine website to another website, upload muppet pictures to another website, etc.

I think the point I have made is a valid one. It is not only muppet replica builders that are violating copyrights. (No suggestion here that others breaking the law makes it OK for anyone else to do so.)

I do find it a bit amusing that you are only speaking up against the smallest percentage of copyright violators (a couple muppet replica buliders) versus the already mentioned large group of copyright violators (us fans!). But you have the right to pick and choose your fights, and as an excellent puppet builder yourself, I can appreciate the fight you chose.

Still, if we're going to "enforce" or comply with one law (muppet replicas) we should "enforce" them all . . . we can't pick and choose!

 

[muppetperson]

For God's sake.Soon we wont even be able to watch The Muppets on our own DVDs because we are watching other people's ideas.They were made to be shared.They allow for fan activity.The line is determining what is Fan activity and what is profiteering.Muppetcentral and Muppetcast are fan activities.

 

[Kevin the Frog]

Fan sites have google adwords to make money....or sell merchandise....or link as affiliates to online stores.....or subscriptions to online radio playing copyrighted music.... how much of a profit is arguable, but there is money exchanging hands. And it's money generated from copyrighted stuff.

I'm trying to make the point that it doesn't stop with the replicas when discussing copyrights. Or when watching or listening to the muppets via less than legal methods.

p.s. As I hope you can tell, I have no intention of reporting anyone for any copyright violation (never would), I'm just making observations.

 

[muppetperson]

The ads pay for running costs, not the material itself.Now, I am walking away from this.

 

[Kevin the Frog]

Sounds similar to the muppet replica builders fee paying for their costs? (time and expense) As suggested on here, a real Kermit would cost $10,000 so $400 - $500 for a replica Kermit seems like covering costs only. I tried walking away several times from this train wreck! You'll be back!

 

[spcglider]

Gordon, I'm not trying to imply that you are doing too little to fight against Muppet copyright violation. I just was keeping the discussion going, and seeing if you are against all types of muppet copyright violation. I assume you never watch muppet youtube videos, listen to muppet radio, download muppet mp3s, copy muppet dvds or vhs tapes, listen to muppet cast podcasts, photocopy pages from a muppet book, quote muppet related full articles from a newspaper or magazine website to another website, upload muppet pictures to another website, etc.

You know what? I don't. And that's the honest truth. I don't spend much time at all on the internet except for in forums like this one and for reasearch for work. I don't have internet access at home by choice.

I do find it a bit amusing that you are only speaking up against the smallest percentage of copyright violators (a couple muppet replica buliders) versus the already mentioned large group of copyright violators (us fans!). But you have the right to pick and choose your fights, and as an excellent puppet builder yourself, I can appreciate the fight you chose.

For the reasons above, I don't know much about the whole illicit MP3 trade or who's involved. Were it not for a casual search one day on eBay for "professional puppet", I wouldn't even know that anyone was replicating Muppet characters.

Still, if we're going to "enforce" or comply with one law (muppet replicas) we should "enforce" them all . . . we can't pick and choose!

I agree. But I would have assumed that since this is a fan site, that such would be stated in the rules of the forum. "No illegal trading of copyrighted materials" and the like. If it's not, it should be.

-G

 

[spcglider]

(clip)They allow for fan activity.The line is determining what is Fan activity and what is profiteering.Muppetcentral and Muppetcast are fan activities.

I agree.

But the person who is at the center of this rolling question defends their activities with the self-same argument. Claiming to be a fan simply making "interpretations" of the characters.

Fan activities are often considered to fall under the "fair usage" clause. But I don't think making replicas an selling them does.

-G

 

[spcglider]

Sounds similar to the muppet replica builders fee paying for their costs? (time and expense) As suggested on here, a real Kermit would cost $10,000 so $400 - $500 for a replica Kermit seems like covering costs only. I tried walking away several times from this train wreck! You'll be back!

First, his prices are upwards of $800 to $1000 for a Kermit. MUCH more for Piggy. Second, a "real" Kermit is produced in the controlled environment of the Muppet Workshop by people who get paid much more for their skills than this person is. Not in someone's dining room or basement. The real Muppet puppets cost more because there are literally hundreds if not thousands of hours of development and research in each one. It's called "overhead costs" and the price reflects that.

There's no difference between what this person is doing and somebody making cheaper knock-off Rolex watches and selling them for $100 on a streetcorner.

Now, I'm not saying this person does shoddy work. So don't go there. You know the difference I'm talking about.

-Gordon

 

[Telly]

I can see how selling the replica would be illegal if the seller is making a profit. But if they don't make any profit off it, I don't see why they can't sell one.

To me, it's no different than buying a cd, ripping it onto your computer, and then burning a copy to keep and listen to in your car. Shouldn't you have to buy another copy if you want to keep one in your car?

Kevin the Frog is pretty much sayin what I've been trying to I guess.

 

[Telly]

First, his prices are upwards of $800 to $1000 for a Kermit. MUCH more for Piggy. Second, a "real" Kermit is produced in the controlled environment of the Muppet Workshop by people who get paid much more for their skills than this person is. Not in someone's dining room or basement. The real Muppet puppets cost more because there are literally hundreds if not thousands of hours of development and research in each one. It's called "overhead costs" and the price reflects that.

There's no difference between what this person is doing and somebody making cheaper knock-off Rolex watches and selling them for $100 on a streetcorner.

Now, I'm not saying this person does shoddy work. So don't go there. You know the difference I'm talking about.

Some people like name-brand merchandise and some don't. Sorry...that's supposed to be a joke to lighten the mood.

This brings something else to my mind....
How can eBay be legal AT ALL? What I'm getting from this conversation is that these people are breaking the law by making a profit off something that they don't hold the liscense to?

Say Joe bought a $2.00 Matchbox car at Wal-Mart. If he sells it on eBay for $3.00 (plus s&h), isn't he technically breaking the law? He's making a dollar profit on something that isn't his.