RIP Christina Grimmie

[Pig'sSaysAdios]

If people from other countries are able to just hop a plane and live here in America then it's won't stop. And I know that trying to stop them from coming over here isn't going to work

But that's not the case, most of these shootings in the US aren't happening because of foreigners, most mass shootings in this country have been caused by Americans.

 

[Drtooth]

If people from other countries are able to just hop a plane and live here in America then it's won't stop. And I know that trying to stop them from coming over here isn't going to work. My prays go out to the Christina's friends and Family and to the all the people in Florida.

Except the guy was born in the US, and was a natural citizen. It's not like violence is that exclusive to the Middle East and exclusive to that religion. And frankly, painting all Muslims as violent wackos is exactly what the actual violent wackos want. Remember that Anger leads to fear thing from Phantom Menace? Say what you will about that movie, that's the history of violence in a nutshell. Dangerous megalomaniacs thrive on angry, stupid people. If calmer heads prevailed, those types would have all been overthrown and replaced by smart people with good solutions.

Even then, this has less to do with religion and more to do with a little chickencrap who had a history of explosive anger, spousal abuse, and vitriolic homophobia. Like I said before, the media is doing right by showing his vain, vapid, moronic selfies instead of trying to make him out to be a freaking supervillain mastermind. He's a pathetic, narcissistic ****** who was angry he wasn't getting his way because he was a horrible person who, instead of taking responsibility and seeking help for his danger to himself and others, blamed the entire rest of the world for everything and stumbled on a chat room or something, and that fed off his anger. Which leads me to the real problem... The *&^%$ing Internet.

And, to paraphrase Sideshow Bob, I'm well aware of the irony of decrying the internet on website, no need to point that out.

Let's for a moment forget about this case. Let's look at the biggest controversy of the year, a freaking movie remake that can easily be ignored being so incredibly polarizing that death threats were sent to everyone involved, probably even the Craft Services company that catered the film. Why do I bring this up? The internet is where terrible people can band together and defend a disgusting opinion and get radicalized by the craziest, nastiest, most hateful opinion. Happens to our politics, happens to our entertainment. Awful people who we'd otherwise look away from and ignore in polite society are now given a soapbox to spew their pathetic little agendas that would otherwise be a crayon scribbled manifesto that no one would ever read or care about. Think about it. Huge groups of terrible coming together and listening to the most ignorant voice and becoming various level of crazy. And no one speaks up against them or they'll be flame warred to oblivion.

So this manchild who was oh so upset that his wife was taken away because he abused her, instead of having any sense of self awareness, felt it was everyone's fault but his for beating on a woman (which he should have been locked up for, just sayin'), fled to the internet, got inspiration by hanging with a group of terrible people (who likely were abusive, spoiled little scumbags too), and became a "terrorist" the same way a serial killer usually claims God told him to kill people. And while Isis thrives on crazies like this, there's no real connection to terrorism. Just angry narcissists that don't realize they're pieces of human garbage who really should just slit their own wrists.

The thing that's disheartening is that these national tragedies are more formulaic than a Scooby-Doo episode. And before you say "How dare you compare the lost lives of dozens of people to a cartoony show for kiddies," I mean that in the most cynical and depressing terms possible. We go through the same exact predictable routine. Wall to wall to wall to wall coverage by the media (who gets ratings), saying this couldn't have been preventable, then finding out (HOKEY SMOKES) it TOTALLY could have been because the level of red flags that were completely ignored pile up, the fleeting seconds of coming together as a nation before everyone tears themselves apart and points fingers, the lack of learning curve and accepting the blame being pointed (spoiler alert: it's EVERYONE), the quintessential paid, partisan hack loudmouths deflecting all the blame that the party they agree with deserves, the NRA sending fleets of lobbyists to make sure nothing changes,, everyone gets cynical and forgets it, maybe some howlingly unfunny jerk makes an ironic joke about it (say a web based game or a tasteless T-shirt that makes modern Family Guy episodes look as obsequious as a kid's joke book), absolutely nothing still gets done, only to have the same thing happen again resulting in nothing getting done and the darn thing repeats itself until we get a little more miserable and cynical yet somehow remained shocked that the thing keeps happening.

 

[fuzzygobo]

I'm all for gun control (although I can see NRA members' side of it, I don't know if I feel totally safe with them either). That seems to be Obama's go-to plan whenever people get shot up.
But while all this is going on, dozens are shot each week on the streets of Chicago. If tighter gun laws went into effect tomorrow, I doubt the drug dealers and gang bangers would adhere to them.
Sadly, here's what will most likely happen: Obama will make a token visit to Orlando once things quiet down, he'll lend comfort to the survivors, maintain "Ice-hole is being contained, and on my watch this is still the best country on earth bar none!" Until we go around this mountain again.

 

[Drtooth]

Sadly, here's what will most likely happen: Obama will make a token visit to Orlando once things quiet down, he'll lend comfort to the survivors, maintain "Ice-hole is being contained, and on my watch this is still the best country on earth bar none!" Until we go around this mountain again.

And they'll call him a terrible president for not doing anything and call him a terrible president for trying to get things done. When something like this happens you can't say "We need to do something!!! 'cept that....and that...and that...I really don't agree with that..." until there's nothing left to do and then whine about how nothing gets done. I'll get into that later.

That said, while I get the cynicism of "gun control won't work because dishonest people don't follow rules," I find that a cop out. By all means, sure... the guy could have also tried bombing the place, but he'd in the end wind up with a crappy cobbled together bomb that probably would have exploded in his own apartment, or even it it was successful, it would have taken out a few people vs 50 of them. Sure. I see it in that light which in that case, why the heck don't they put people who search "how to build a bomb with neat things you find around the home" on a list like they supposedly do when someone searches child porn? While I agree that it isn't just about gun control and it's a massive failing on all levels that we'll all have Monday Morning Quarterback hindsight on, we'll NEVER learn from it unless we do everything in our power. I agree that taking illegal guns off the streets is a step, but it's a step we should take later. Build the foundation of common sense gun laws that 90% of the country demands. Laws that actually protect responsible gun owners, while weeding out hoarders and stockpilers as "maybe this is someone to be looked at." And seriously...no one needs an assault rifle to hunt or protect their homes. Those are for killing people in combat, a weapon of war. Heck, POLICE shouldn't have them. That said, the NRA cares more about the greedy gun makers than the people who support it...and even then those people are a vast minority of gun owners anyway.

Back to what I was saying earlier, the thing that makes me furious about these tragedies is everyone wants something to be done, but no one wants to put up the hard work, the money, the effort, or even the relative slight inconvenience to do anything about it. And I'll say this again: The very same politicians that deflect gun control by saying it's a mental health issue pull funding from mental health facilities. And I keep hearing that all the time. Even here, large mental health facilities up here are either closing down or merging with other hospitals because these aren't profitable or sexy enough to keep running. My father works with one of these hospitals they dumped the excess mentally unstable inmates, and one of them attacked him the other day! And they're trying to shoo them out to take care of the oh so sexy opiod painkiller epidemic that we're pouring money into. I could complain about that, but at least they're doing something about something. So basically we have people that say we can't have gun control because of the selfish "gumment take away errr gawwwns" or the cynical "Phwahh! Snwahh! It'll achieve nothing! Feh!! Smartness!" And we have those who say "sure it's a mental health issue, but if just one of my tax dollars doesn't wind up going to corporate welfare, I shall scream and scream!" So, basically we have that nice little paradox of "we something to be done, as long as we don't have to do anything about it."

Which brings me to what I've been saying all along, everyone needs to get the crap over themselves. Stop selling freaking war weapons! Fund mental health! Block websites that recruit morons to be terrorists, as well as bomb making sites! Stop watching 24/hr news networks of either political persuasion! Heck...even if it's just a little fraction in this whole thing, pay attention to domestic violence! The solutions are simple and easy. All it takes is work. Little work. Small changes. And because it's not magically farted out of Obama's butt, it's his fault and he's Hitler and the Joker or something a 5 year old calls their parents when they don't get a second ice cream cone. No. Not the fault of the lazy, jaded, cynical types that think they're much smarter than they are. And if that all doesn't work, then we can be a bunch of cynical babies that overreact to Buzzfeed articles about some podunk school saying brown crayons are racist.

 

[Pig'sSaysAdios]

while all this is going on, dozens are shot each week on the streets of Chicago. If tighter gun laws went into effect tomorrow, I doubt the drug dealers and gang bangers would adhere to them.

Yes but, i'm certain that stricter gun laws would help to prevent all kinds of shootings in other areas. As for gangs in general, that's part of a much bigger issue and should be treated separately. Gangs generally stem from abuse, poverty, mass incarceration and a lot of other issues that I don't think we should delve into right now.

 

[fuzzygobo]

I would really like to think so. I've seen lobbies for gun control as far back as John Lennon's killing (and corresponding mental health reform to go with the nutjob that snuffed him).
And in 35 years, how better off are we?

 

[Drtooth]

Yes but, i'm certain that stricter gun laws would help to prevent all kinds of shootings in other areas. As for gangs in general, that's part of a much bigger issue and should be treated separately. Gangs generally stem from abuse, poverty, mass incarceration and a lot of other issues that I don't think we should delve into right now.

Gangs are indeed a separate issue and frankly that sort of thing should be dealt with on its own terms. Seems anytime there's a mental health based tragedy that could have been taken care of, or even in the case of police brutality, gangs are always name checked. You cannot have the same solutions for different problems. That said, gang violence is by all means more depressing, as no matter how much gets done with that, and usually stuff done by the community, it only gets a little better.

The thing is, there's a level of terrible culture that lower income, inner city neighborhoods have to deal with. There's a lot that needs to be done there and we should always strive to fix that. The difference between this crime and one of those is that, well... every time I hear of these lone wolf manchildren, they're well to do, if not at least upper middle class. Their desire to be "terrorists" comes from either mental health/anger issues or just being bored and angry at their parents. Now, let's put the gun control stuff aside for a minute...ahem..

Why the freaking freak isn't anyone doing anything about these indoctrination sites? How come Youtube is quicker to pull a video that has some copyrighted song in the background than training videos? Why is this stuff accessible, and why can't we put people on a list if they go to these sites. If Patriot Act and Google's ads and all the crap Snowden was railing against was all that true, where are the gumment agents that should be keeping tabs on these people? The only one doing a darn thing on the internet it seems is Anonymous. I'm not suggesting that we should lose all our internet freedoms (though it's not like certain companies aren't trying to destroy them anyway), but there should not be access to these freaking sites in the first place. And yeah, I know the whole "Savvy internet users will always find a corner of the dark web" but at least try something.

And if this tragedy couldn't get any more predictable, Drumph said something predictably disgusting. This time saying Obama wants to not stop terrorism. Heh. Yeah. It's not like Drumph is benefiting from terrorists angering ignorant buffoons. Which, yeah, he totally is and Isis totally wants him to be president.

 

[D'Snowth]

Bottom line is simply this: until that one party can get their heads out from between their buttcheeks and unite with the American people, rather than only be in it for themselves, then things aren't going to improve in the country at all. I mean I'm sorry, but it's becoming clear to me that the gays are becoming to that party what the Jews were to the Nazis - I know that's a terrible comparison to make, but the similarities are seemingly that disgustingly true.

 

[Drtooth]

There's nothing I can say that wouldn't just be an easy attack on Republicans. I'm trying pretty hard to find a middle, but there's obviously none. I've been saying for years now that the party only panders to the religious types because they know that if they split from those voters and only focused on the Neo-Con Reaganomics platform (i.e. huge tax cuts for the wealthy and futzing around the Middle East to show how powerful we are), they'll lose a huge chunk of the vote they gained through shady means since the 1970's. You see, Evangelicals never voted before, and when the government threatened to take away tax exempt status from a Christian college back in the 70's because they outright refused to admit black people. Because racists are extremely religious and have their own churches, even though the whole "whatever you do to the least of my brothers, you do onto me" thing is completely lost on them. So they figured, let's get a bunch of these hyper religious people involved in the very same politics they once refused to get into, they started coming up with wedge issues straight out of a Catholic playbook, and this saw the rise of Jerry Fallwell and eventually the election of Ronald Reagan and the Neo-Con movement. Which again, Neo-Conservatism is basically welfare for rich people but with that tangy taste of bible-thumping to sell wealthy favoring policies to those who would be hurt most by it. Added to the "Southern Strategy," which is to say when the likes of JFK and Lyndon Johnson started caring about civil rights, the Republicans courted the racist Dixiecrats, thus making the party what it is today. And again, I'm not saying the entire party is crazy, which is what leads me to the biggest problem here.

The vocal minority.

Think of it as a medium sized family all wants to go out to a restaurant. And after having a nice discussion about it, they all chose one place to go where they all can find something they like. They basically compromised and found a favorable solution. Except for one... the spoiled little 5 year old brat who shouts loudly about how he wants to go to Burger King. Any attempt to try and talk to him like a rational adult and say anything from "we can do your thing tomorrow" and "you're the only one who wants go, so it's no fair to everyone else" end up with a loud, angry, embarrassing temper tantrum. because this is an ill mannered little twerp that gets what he wants 99% of the time, and he wants to make it an even hundred. So the family has two options. Do what the spoiled 5 year old wants and ignore everyone else who had the discussion and effort to come together as a group, or do what they want and have the little snot have an epic scene that the restaurant meaning they either all have to leave or have a terrible experience. And that's how our policies are made. A fraction of a decimal point of loud, obnoxious, spoiled rotten entitled extremists want exactly what they want and screw everyone else. That's why congress is full of "no compromise" demagogues elected by fringe far rightists and why the party constantly caters towards them. The only way I'll ever start to respect the right ever again is if they cut those wannabe Libertarians out of the conversation, and leave them to vote for some abhorrent third party candidate letting the moderate Republicans to have more say in their own party. But, like I said, if that's an option, they'll lose votes and the party will be split. That said, if the freaking Democrats that cared so much about electing Obama actually showed up to vote on Congressional races, we wouldn't be knee deep in Tea Party crazies that have been blocking everything possible to keep their jobs. So really, it's their fault as much as anyone's. And frankly, I'm angrier at them than anyone else.

Now, putting aside the fact that the NRA sends a fleet of lobbyists to manipulate the system, the number of gun owners that are force fed the paranoia that "Gumment take away da guns" who have their little Doomsday Prepper/Freedom Militia are an insanely small amount. The ones that want to stockpile assault rifles for when the government comes to take away their stockpile of assault rifles, which is the most circular logic I've ever heard. These are people on the fringiest fringe of society. They shouldn't matter in the slightest. But... And it's no help that NRA head Wayne LaPieree (who looks almost exactly like Steven King, just pointing that out there) feeds these people the same backwards, fascist far right paranoia Glenn Beck used to scam people into Goldline. Add that up to what I said earlier about the internet being where terrible people meet to become horrible people, and you have a perfect storm of vocal minority vs. Everyone else.

Which got me to make a sad realization. The only way we can ever combat the NRA and get even the slightest gun legislation passed to make sure that at the very least would be terrorists don't take advantage of our loose gun laws (and they are. They TOTALLY are! They totally freaking know this and suggest it) is to out lobby them with a billion dollar anti-NRA lobby controlling the government. We need a new gun lobby that cares more for the responsible types that have a non-creepy passion for gun ownership, who lock them up and only use them for hunting and home security who will spill billions of dollars into political campaigns to make sure that the only ones who can buy these things are responsible, sane, and expert at handling.

 

[D'Snowth]

Of course, as always, the far right is putting the entire blame for the Orlando shooting all on Obama - just like they always do. Anything that happens, it's automatically Obama's fault. After all, when Bristol Palin got knocked up out of wedlock a second time? Obama's fault. When Josh Duggar molested his sisters? Obama's fault. Hurricane Sandy? Obama's fault.