And America Continues to Show it's True Colors. . .

[jvcarroll]

Unfortunately, it's a catch-22, as Drtooth would put it, because on the other hand, then you're faced with something that other people do have a problem, and that's including a token minority for the sake of "political correctness." I mean, I'm not complaining about that or anything, but it is a common complaint when it seems like movie or TV casts include at least one ethnic character just for the sake of including a token ethnic character.

Actually, it's very easy. Just cast some black comedic talent, ask their take and allow them to influence the project. There are going to always be people who are looking to be upset, but they don't represent most folk. White people in some room taking and planning among themselves is when weird problems occur.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Actually, it's very easy. Just cast some black comedic talent, ask their take and allow them to influence the project.

Ohhhh not so easy, lol. You can consult one black comedian for input, but a lot of other black comedians might disagree, or parts of the black community in general. They are not a hive mind. No group is like that. Some Italian Americans worship The Godfather, others hate the sight of it. Some feminists think showing your breasts is liberating, others think it's exploitation. Some black people loved the family on The Cosby Show. Other black people were turned off by the show because it didn't represent their real lives. Other examples where things get dicey: Bayformers got into trouble with their offensive caricature characters, Mudflap and Skids. Thing is, one of the voice actors is African American, and a lot of the characters' attitude was supposedly based on the two actors ad libbing together in the studio. Was that actor racist? Must we shun him now? And then you had Ghostbusters "fans" bullying and harassing (and ultimately hacking) Leslie Jones because her character was too "sassy" and "only an MTA worker" and therefore "racist." Jones tried to defend herself, asking why can't ordinary people be heroes too? The attacks on her only got worse. Heck, back in the day, Eddie Murphy was told his Mr. Robinson character was too racist. No matter what black performers try to do, they are always under extra scrutiny, from conservatives and liberals alike. Joe Morton recently did an Off Broadway show, playing comedian Dick Gregory. At one point, Gregory laments that African Americans are always under pressure to be ideal examples of their entire race. A heavy burden to bear.

Heck, I just finished doing a play friends of mine had written. They are African American and Hispanic. I was concerned that some of the jokes seemed a bit offensive to minorities. They looked at me like I was crazy, lol. When it comes to racism, we have to learn to listen to each other more, not just assume we know what's best.

"It's not easy to understand other people's problems, but it's very easy to think you do." — Mokey Fraggle

There are going to always be people who are looking to be upset

And they are the only people businesses tend to care about, even if they're not the majority.

White people in some room taking and planning among themselves is when weird problems occur.

I wouldn't generalize by race like that. Eddie Murphy was fine with the white people who wrote and directed movies he starred in. Did they not know what they were doing? Maybe when rich people talk and plan among themselves there are problems.

 

[CensoredAlso]

But, I still don't really see the point in adding any more characters than necessary. I mean, I want more diversity overall on TV and movies, but the original didn't have very many characters in the first place, so i'm not sure where African American actors would fit in there.

I just think something's horribly backward when a 1940s movie actually features black characters (imperfect though the roles may have been), and then a 21st century movie says "Eh, not necessary." I mean that's what the OscarsSoWhite protest is about. We're eliminating old racist images, but not giving minorities any opportunity to create new images of themselves.

 

[D'Snowth]

Heck, back in the day, Eddie Murphy was told his Mr. Robinson character was too racist.

Heck, people often accuse Tyler Perry of "reverse racism" (which, again, no such thing, any racism is racism, plain and simple) for having all-black casts in his shows and movies . . . never mind the fact that he has had white people in his shows and movies before. Besides, there are some rednecks out there who enjoy his movies

It's kind of like how conservatives complain about SNL "pushing liberal agenda," never mind they've made fun of Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, John Edwards, Mike Gravel, Dennis Kucinich, Bill and Hillary Clinton in the past.

 

[jvcarroll]

Ohhhh not so easy, lol. You can consult one black comedian for input, but a lot of other black comedians might disagree, or parts of the black community in general. They are not a hive mind. No group is like that. Some Italian Americans worship The Godfather, others hate the sight of it. Some feminists think showing your breasts is liberating, others think it's exploitation. Some black people loved the family on The Cosby Show. Other black people were turned off by the show because it didn't represent their real lives. Other examples where things get dicey: Bayformers got into trouble with their offensive caricature characters, Mudflap and Skids. Thing is, one of the voice actors is African American, and a lot of the characters' attitude was supposedly based on the two actors ad libbing together in the studio. Was that actor racist? Must we shun him now? And then you had Ghostbusters "fans" bullying and harassing (and ultimately hacking) Leslie Jones because her character was too "sassy" and "only an MTA worker" and therefore "racist." Jones tried to defend herself, asking why can't ordinary people be heroes too? The attacks on her only got worse. Heck, back in the day, Eddie Murphy was told his Mr. Robinson character was too racist. No matter what black performers try to do, they are always under extra scrutiny, from conservatives and liberals alike. Joe Morton recently did an Off Broadway show, playing comedian Dick Gregory. At one point, Gregory laments that African Americans are always under pressure to be ideal examples of their entire race. A heavy burden to bear.

Heck, I just finished doing a play friends of mine had written. They are African American and Hispanic. I was concerned that some of the jokes seemed a bit offensive to minorities. They looked at me like I was crazy, lol. When it comes to racism, we have to learn to listen to each other more, not just assume we know what's best.

"It's not easy to understand other people's problems, but it's very easy to think you do." — Mokey Fraggle



And they are the only people businesses tend to care about, even if they're not the majority.



I wouldn't generalize by race like that. Eddie Murphy was fine with the white people who wrote and directed movies he starred in. Did they not know what they were doing? Maybe when rich people talk and plan among themselves there are problems.

I'm no fan of spinning specific narratives where none exist, but I totally get what you mean. There will always be the naysayers to tear down even the noblest of intentions. But that's not always or even most of the time. It only appears so. The truth is that absolutely everything can be picked apart in order to appear any way one wants it to. The most mature thing that all of us can do is to follow our interests and the things that we do like. When things go beyond the pale, that's when we stand up and confront them.

I was reamed out by an overly zealous social justice warrior a while back for my critical comments toward someone who tore down the work of very talented actors in their roles as disabled people. To some, it's "ablest" to hire anyone but a handicapped actor for a handicapped role. There was a parallel drawn to blackface. I understand the concern, but I find this asinine. This is what actors do - they explore different facets of the human experience and in doing that they and the audience learns more about it. Of course, when a handicapped person can be hired for a handicapped role, they should definitely be considered. But with things like the Steven Hawking biopic, it required someone falling to a disease and that means an able bodied person. Explaining that to someone who only wants to see a limited point of view is exhausting. However, these particular SJW folk are actually very much in the minority. It's just that their voices are louder. Most folk know how to be reasonable and thoughtful, even when they disagree. That's the place where any good conversation starts. The crazies will never be happy. Quote me on that! Ha!

There's also the fact that groundbreaking films like Boys Don't Cry and Transamerica are now seen as anti-trans due to their hiring of cisgender actresses for trans roles. Eugh. Overzealous millennials. If not for famous folk taking on these roles, the message would not have gotten out to the people who needed to hear it most.

So, yeah. There will always be people who will object to the attempts by filmmakers to make things better, but that's usually a very noisy and never satisfied minority within a minority. The chip-on-their-shoulder crowd. Not only do I not start there for guidance, I seldom even give these inconsiderate folk any consideration because they're just looking for a fight.

I just think something's horribly backward when a 1940s movie actually features black characters (imperfect though the roles may have been), and then a 21st century movie says "Eh, not necessary." I mean that's what the OscarsSoWhite protest is about. We're eliminating old racist images, but not giving minorities any opportunity to create new images of themselves.

I completely agree with this. It's important not to whitewash history, particularly film history. However, thoughtful context should be given before young people view such things. That's my only concern. I think the whitewashing of our past has done a disservice. Young folk don't know just how bad things were for many minorities and therefore don't realize how bad things still are.

 

[Old Thunder]

I was watching the movie Storks today and you'll never believe it, but there was a lesbian and a couple of gay men in it. Did nobody else catch this? I mean, while everyone's gone ballistic about Beauty and the Beast, no one seems to care squat about this.

It's fine by me though!

 

[D'Snowth]

Conversely, people were making a big stink (though nowhere near as much as the are B&B) about a lebsian couple in FINDING DORY, however, most people probably wouldn't have even put two and two together, considering the alleged lesbian couple were barely on screen for a minute, and no indication of their relationship was ever blatantly mentioned (so they could have been friends, lovers, sisters, cousins, or even a pair of strangers).

 

[jvcarroll]

I was watching the movie Storks today and you'll never believe it, but there was a lesbian and a couple of gay men in it. Did nobody else catch this? I mean, while everyone's gone ballistic about Beauty and the Beast, no one seems to care squat about this.

It's fine by me though!

Yup. The real reason why some folk get upset about the exposure of LGBT people in family entertainment is when it's either a positive or merely a matter of fact depiction. These "family" groups have absolutely no problem with the negative portrayal of the LGBT. The thing is, it's a big world and we all have the right to exist out loud and out in the open. That's what freedom means. And kids should be exposed to all the different types of people who share this planet. Everyone is born with their own orientation. You can't really change it. The only thing one can do is create unhealthy shame around it. The "family" groups are actually harming children. In another generation or so, this won't be so much of an issue. People are getting smarter about the LGBT because more people are comfortable being out and open and that's partly because of the portrayal of LGBT in modern media. We're just people.

 

[D'Snowth]

Yeah, the pastor of a plant church that I ended up becoming the social media director for emailed us this morning, and he too is trying to persuade us all to boycott Disney for, you guessed it, LeFou being gay.

Funny how nobody has any problem with TV shows and movies depicting heterosexual characters and fornicating. Last I heard, that was a sin as well.

 

[jvcarroll]

Yeah, the pastor of a plant church that I ended up becoming the social media director for emailed us this morning, and he too is trying to persuade us all to boycott Disney for, you guessed it, LeFou being gay.

Funny how nobody has any problem with TV shows and movies depicting heterosexual characters and fornicating. Last I heard, that was a sin as well.

These Disney and anti-gay boycotts just don't work anyway. It's a tool used for exposure and fund raising. Anti-gay politics, however, still works in many places.