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Your Thoughts: When Everyone is Gone

Cantus Rock

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Well, with Jerry stepping down, we're left with an extremely small number of original performers (Dave...and thats about it).

What do you think its going to be like when there is an entirely new set of performers? When there are no original Muppeteers left?

I think its going to be pretty bad, unfortunately. Personally I've seen a degradation of quality with every lost performer. When everyone is gone, things well never be the same, and that is a terrible thing.

What do you think?
 

christyb

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True. Time goes on and things change. This is inevitably happening with the Muppets. I don't think it's such a bad thing. (Plus we still have two orginal performers left. In other words, I consider Steve Whitmire one of the orginal). I like what I see so far. Sure some things are off but that just takes some getting used to. So let's try and look on the bright side!
 

Vic Romano

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It's not so much the puppeteers (although there are some performances I don't care for) who worry me, but the writers and directors. Making Muppet magic relys heavily on them.
 

Infinity Sirius

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There will always be something special about the original Muppet group that will probably never be seen again, because the original group started with Jim and in effects when they retire or die the original magic will die with them. But I believe the magic will live on in some way or another, because there are people who have the same spark within them that Jim and the others posess. What I think needs to be done is to let these people somehow who can keep the the magic alive should be hired and not just cough things up to try and make money. If the magic or whatever it is can be preserved for other generations and have the same effect, then money will be made. It's all a matter of taking a risk and not afraid of losing, I think.
 

WOCKA2416

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The Muppets still attract extremely talented people to work for them, so we'll always have quality performances. People like Bill Barretta will carry on the Muppet tradition. :rolleyes:
 

Beauregard

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The Magic may be dying...

Jim Henson is gone. Richard Hunt is gone. Frank Oz has retired. Jerry Nelson has retired. Dave Goelz is all that is left from the first generation.

Steve Whitmere, Kevin Clash, and Bill Baretta are here from the second generation.

Eric Jacobson has become the start of the third generation, the replacement generation.
...Magic cannot be replaced...

When Jim and Richard were gone, their ghosts, like those of their characters Marley and Maley, stayed on. They lived through their friends and colleuges who knew them best. Muppet Christmas Carol, Muppet Treasure Island floated through that period like gems on the water, or the last exquisete fireworks before the party is over.

With Muppets From Space came the start of the second generation. Steve Whitmere and Bil Baretta became the two new staring cast members, and Pepe stole the lime-light. Was the Magic gone? I ddn't see it, but every now and then a trace of magic sparkled through the false front. A fakeness seemed to cover everything in that movie. It seemed to call out saying that this was not the real thing. This was not the Muppets we know and love. Could that be because Frank, Jim, Richard were not there? (Frank, remeber, did only the voices in that film.)

Something endering about the Muppets was missing, and each scene jarred. The love and care of the Muppeteers. They say that your Puppet is your own, and cannot be replaced by someone else because only you truly understand the motivations and truth of that character.

Kermit's Swamp Years brought new characters, new voices, (enter Joey Mazzarino as Goggles), new era.

Very Merry Muppet Christmas marks the begining on the Third Generation, whilc KSY forms the transition from old to new.



...where did the Magic go?​



What changed completly from Muppet Treasure Island, to KSY, to VMC? In each there was still Dave Goelz or Steve Whitmere, certainly second generation Muppeteers if not first...what was the biggest change?

Who else was missing? Not just a muppeteer, after all, a film is not made by its performers, but rather from a strong group of people, starting back at the begining with a writer and a script. Jerry Juhl was gone.

Jim Lewis, and Joey Mazzarino are the Next generation of Muppet Writers. And, ladies and gentlemen, I put to you that is where our problem lies. Jerry Juhl was with them practically from the begining. No one can have known the Muppets like he did. And now he's gone. And so has the Magic.

Now the questian is...

...can the Magic return...
 

christyb

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So much for looking at the bright side of things :rolleyes:.
 

Cantus Rock

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Beau yet again hits it on the head.

I've always been amazed at some of the blinded optimism around here.

I am perfectly happy watching TMM and MTM, old TMS and FR, and rekindling the magic that once was through them. I see the Muppets, with this new crop of performers (not that they are at all bad performers, because they certainly aren't...its all about the roles and the characters..) as being like 1950's hack actors; the mighty have fallen. When once we had tactful, charmingly hilarious and wonderfully zany characters, we now have tacky reproductions struggling to stay in the public eye through pizza commercials and make-over shows. This bothers me; it degrades the esteemed image of genius that Jim Henson embodied. However it seems to be encouraged by modern fans. :rolleyes:

There is an obvious shift in quality with ever performer who leaves camp. The characters are like amazing athletes; perfect when they were at their peak, but now in need of a slow-down. I'm not saying that the Muppets should not be in the public eye totally; I just think there should be less of this clinginess to it (ie. that which is being portrayed in these current ads/guest spots).

I think the fact that the last 3 Muppet feature-length presentations have all been made-for-television speaks volumes (KSY, IVMMCM, and now this Wizard of Oz remake). I see the Muppets turning as chinsey as their parodies, and that saddens me.

Have at it, I know you've got something to say. :smirk:
 

MelissaY1

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I agree, the problem lies not so much in the performing, but the writing. For me, one thing I've noticed is that the Muppet comedy style has changed so much over the years. They're trying too hard to be "hip" and "trendy" and for me the magic of the Muppets was the fact that years ago it was like watching the old Hollywood films where even the lesser known character actors were still a big contribution. I mean, look how many fans we have here of Crazy Harry, Sam the Eagle, etc. who are just as popular Kermit and Piggy.
Also, I think the comedy is not as spontaneous as it was. I mean, sure we knew what the punchlines were going to be on the Muppet Show but the way they DID it was what made us laugh. Nowadays it seems like there's no spontaneity. I also feel the characters have not stayed true to what they once were and that's where the problem with the writing comes in. Why do all like Eric Jacobsen so much? Not only because he's a fine performer and does the voices pretty darn good, but because he's stayed true to what makes Grover Grover, and Miss Piggy Miss Piggy.
Gonzo isn't as wacky as he once was, Kermit isn't has mature and leaderlike as he was and I don't blame the performers. They do their best with the material they're given to work with. We need some creative people to come in who will write up amazing things for our favorite characters to do.
Melissa
 

Vic Romano

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I agree so much. I think the way the Muppets handle themselves can be downright disgraceful (IAVMMC in particular). I live my fandom through nostalgia. It's not that I don't aknowledge them now, but it was when Jim was alive, Frank was involved and Jerry was writing that embodies what the Muppets are to me.

I'd be interested in some kind of pole if people are happy with what the Muppets have become, not Disney owning them, but what they're like now vs. what they were like way back when.
 
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