Your Thoughts: "The Muppets" Theatrical Film

[zoebell]

i like that too. i think they've always wanted that to be the thing with them, that they really do love each other even if they're kind of crazy together. i just like that this one acknowledged that kermit has to say it back, which he finally did.

 

[Puckrox]

Hey guys, I finally typed up a review for my tumblr blog 'Never Too Old To Love Muppets'. It's sort of a love letter to the film, but it does touch on several things I wish were different. I've never written a full length movie review so it's not perfect, but, yeah! Enjoy!

http://nevertoooldtolovemuppets.tumblr.com/post/13411010057/my-review-on-the-muppets

 

[Slackbot]

I've been hesitant to come out with this opinion, considering the popular sentiment on this board, but if you guys can forgive me for writing MFS fic you can forgive me for anything.

In the past Kermit and Piggy's relationship has irked me. The idea that someone can just claim someone else against their will and, by persistence and brute force, eventually get what they want ticks me off, to put it mildly. I won't go into why it pushes my buttons; that's personal stuff that doesn't need to be detailed here.

In my mind, love isn't won through persistence. You can't just grab someone, yell "Mine!" and expect to have your way. Love isn't won. It isn't earned. You can't demand it. It's given willingly or it's not real at all.

I believe that this movie portrays their relationship in the best way I've seen yet. Piggy had the nerve to fake a wedding to snare Kermit, and then build a home for them, presumably without his input. If I were Kermit, that would have been the last straw. But this time I could see something underneath Miss Piggy's overbearing attitude. Oz spoke of Piggy coming from pain, and I could see that here. She adores Kermit, and misses him, but she has no clue how to express it. She can't stand being seen as vulnerable. So she falls back on manipulation. She plays go-away-closer with Kermit, and even tries to fool herself into thinking she doesn't want him any longer, to bandage old wounds. Classic Piggy.

In my mind, she redeemed herself when she took over after Kermit gave up. She did what Kermit couldn't bring himself to do because he's too nice, and got a celebrity host no matter what it took. She pulled the Muppets together using her greatest asset: the moxie that she's shown from the very beginning. And I get the sense that she didn't do it as part of a plan to win Kermit back; at that moment it had become her mission as well. By the end, she was no longer trying to claim Kermit, and I got the feeling that perhaps they had gotten a lot out of their systems and could try it again, this time on a more mature, realistic level.

That's my opinion, anyway. The short version of it. This and a dollar will buy you a can of New Coke Zero.

 

[CensoredAlso]

In the past Kermit and Piggy's relationship has irked me. The idea that someone can just claim someone else against their will and, by persistence and brute force, eventually get what they want ticks me off, to put it mildly.

Well the thing is it's not really against his will. Kermit does want to be with Miss Piggy, he just needs some "persuasion" to finally commit to it, lol.

 

[zoebell]

well, i would agree with that in general, but i always look at it in comedic terms- because the whole point of her obsession with him on TMS was supposed to be funny and it always was.

but i do think there were moments that grew more continuous later where you see that kermit does love her back, like in the piggy special (it couldn't be more clear in that one). or maybe what happened was he grew to rely on her devotion to him, but at some point he DID return her affection and once that happens it's only fair that he express it towards her, rather than continue to expect her to always be there just because he knows how she feels about him. if he feels the same way, she deserves to know it too

i thought they tackled that direct issue in this and that's what i liked. they were basing it on the assumption that kermit DOES love piggy and just can't express it, which i think is fair at this point. since the earliest signs that he had feelings for her were by now, 30 years ago, i think it's safe to say that however he developed that feeling in the beginning, she can't force him to feel that way, he really does.

he may not have had that at first, but you can't deny that it happened at some point. maybe in the early 80's. although to be fair, i think there were some occasions on TMS when he was jealous or something, wasn't he? correct me if i'm wrong, i know it was rare

 

[CensoredAlso]

although to be fair, i think there were some occasions on TMS when he was jealous or something, wasn't he? correct me if i'm wrong, i know it was rare

The thing about "Muppet Show Kermit" is that he tended to be a bit stoic on these matters. You saw more emoting from Kermit (and all the characters really) in the feature films and specials.

 

[Gonzo's Hobbit]

Maybe I'm naive and missed soemthing but I never really thought their relationship was against anyone's will. That's why I always like the scenes where they talk it out. I feel like if one of them didn't want it, the conversations would be different. But they way they talk about their relationship in movies like MTM(in the carraige and even after the park chase) and even MTI (when they talk before the piarates show up or when they're hanging from the tree branch) or the way they act in MCC and VMX (go Kermit dip that pig!)...uh sorry...show that there is indeed something more there. At least in my opinion.

 

[gbrobeck]

Nobody's ever said Kermit doesn't have feelings for Piggy. It's just that she's a bit (okay, maybe a lot) more overbearing than Kermit would like, and she wants their relationship to move faster than Kermit wants it to. Kermit is the "let's take things slow" type, while Piggy is the "let's get married five seconds after we meet" type.

 

[Daffyfan4ever]

I did miss some of the newer Muppets from the Muppets Tonight era though. I get it, they wanted to go back to the older days which is definitely cool (like I said before I loved all the classic characters!) but I still missed seeing characters like Johnny and Sal. Pepe's part was really small too, and Rizzo was barely in it . Bobo had a pretty big part, though, and that was great. He always cracks me up

Yeah. I've noticed Pepe's brief cameo. I wonder if that was intentional so they could give the classic Muppets more airtime or what the deal is with that. It is true we don't want him to overshadow the other characters or become the classic Muppets version of 'Elmo.' But I'm hoping he doesn't vanish from existence like his old partner Seymour. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens in future Muppet projects.

Also, they don't explain why Kermit and Piggy split up so long ago- Kermit says that back then he said things that he regretted but we never find out what those things were and when Piggy talks about knowing that Kermit didn't want to marry her, only die-hard fans would get what she is saying (the novel has a flashback scene where it goes back to a huge argument that Kermit and Piggy had after The Muppets Take Manhattan where Kermit says, "you are not my wife, you will never be my wife", then Piggy takes the wedding photo of her and Kermit and rips it in two and runs out)- NONE of this is in the movie so new fans- fans the movie is trying to create, have no idea what is going on and near the end of the movie where the photo comes up, there is no context- I cannot believe that was edited out- it's such a big part of the Kermit and Piggy side story. I am BEGGING AND PRAYING that this will be put back in when the DVD comes out!!!

I'm glad you mentioned that because I also wondered what Kermit said that made Piggy so angry. So it seems like you answered a really big question there. Yeah. I hope they put that on the DVD at least as a bonus feature. Seems like the only movie they really referenced was the original Muppet movie (aside from singing "Together Again" from TMTM). It would have been nice if they would have elaborated on the Kermit/Miss Piggy history a bit more.

Things I noticed. Jerry Nelson is the voice of The Muppet Telephon announcer (uncredited), and if you look in the background, Jim Henson's picture can be seen twice. Once in Kermit's old office and second outside for one of the Jim Henson exibits.

Yeah. I recognized Jerry's voice when he introduced Kermit. It's interesting that even though he's not performing his own characters anymore, he's still doing voice-over work.

 

[daltysmilth]

I liked this movie, I'd say it's better than Muppet Christmas Carol and Muppets From Space, but not quite as good as the Muppet Movie.

Some things: as popular as Gonzo and Rizzo were in the 90's, I kinda wish they'd had more screen time. (Was Rizzo in the movie at all? I saw some Muppet Rats, but they weren't onscreen long enough to tell if any of them was Rizzo.) Ditto for Pepe. Though it's nice that he did get some screen time.

The music and the song-and-dance numbers were very Flight Of The Conchords-y, though that's not too surprising given James Bobin and Bret McKenzie's involvement. I kinda wish Bret and/or Jemaine Clement had had cameos in the film. But hey, if they do a Muppet Show revival, maybe they can have Flight Of The Conchords as the guest(s).

As for Kermit and Piggy, I think the specifics of what happened to Kermit and Piggy were left ambiguous on purpose. It's a common thing in movies. Consider Indy and Marion in Raiders Of The Lost Ark. We don't know exactly why they split up prior to the movie. It's hinted at but never explicitly said. Or in Star Trek II: The Wrath Of Khan. We know that Kirk had a relationship with Carol Marcus that resulted in the conception of her son David, and the Kirk stayed away from him and her at her request, but we're never told exactly why they split up. In the end, it doesn't really matter. It's called leaving things to the audience's imaginations.