Your Thoughts: "Muppets Most Wanted" Theatrical Film

[Beauregard]

I think (for me) one of the downsides to a long running series like The Muppets is that there is very little wiggle-room for character development. And, I know, they are more about laughs than they are about story -- and always have been.

BUT, when was the last time that a character really had a new development? Like Gonzo starting to date chickens, or Kermit actually liking Piggy, or Gonzo and Rizzo becoming a friendship duo.

The only developments I can think of lately is Scooter becoming the defacto leader, and obviously the stuff with Walter.

Now, this isn't a huge problem, except that I feel that movies like Frozen or the Lego Movie have a freshness, character-driven factor that the Muppets cannot really compete with.

 

[beatnikchick300]

Just got back from seeing it, and....I really liked it! This is exactly what I want from a Muppet movie; it had a good story, good songs, good, appropriate suspense. the characters all worked perfectly, and it had softer, touching moments without seeming overly sappy or cutesy (and the cameos were all funny). It wasn't perfect, but it was very good.

 

[Pinkflower7783]

*mumbles* still waiting for a proposal...anyways...I wanted to mention some good news after seeing it for the third time yesterday I went to the Disney store and most of the merchandise was sold out all that was left was a few pillows and some Piggy dolls.

 

[Ruahnna]

Um--this is rather epic. I started writing and I couldn't quite stop--that seems to happen to me rather a lot. Before I chicken out, here are my comments/observations after seeing the movie a third time. This is a long, somewhat rambling and clearly obsessive post about the muppets and their latest movie. If that degree of detail alarms you, just skip this huge post and jump in after.

Once again, after teaching all day (public school) and then teaching my night class for four hours (real estate), I went to a late showing of MMW Friday night. I was looking for something I had missed the first two times, looking to see what might charm me now that I knew what to expect.

Not a lot changed on the third viewing, although I think some of the "Awww...fooey" had worn off because I'm not surprised and disappointed at the same time. Here are my further observations, for what they are worth. They are not designed to sway people or change people’s opinion—I’m just sharing my observations and interested in the comments of others.

In the spirit of being supportive and good-natured, there were the things I really enjoyed. Kermit yelling “I’m an amphibian-American!” when he’s in the paddy-wagon. That amused me. (On a related note, who exactly is driving the getaway van that Kermit escapes the gulag in? They surely weren’t all in that van, and we see Kermit, Walter, Fozzie and Animal.)

Watching for the third time, I was remembering something that someone--Beaker, I think--commented about an earlier post—that something-or-other wasn't canon. I think we have to be plain that there is no canon--not reliably, anyway--because while Kermit is cheekily talking about doing a sequel (I just love his self-satisfied expression when Statler and Waldorf get out of the way and we see him dressed in white and gold behind them), he has JUST SAID, “We just got back together again.” Are they making the sequel while they talk about making a sequel? Yes, yes—I know the real answer, but what I asking is, “What is Kermit’s reality?” If we accept him as the motivating force behind this new movie/sequel, then what is his perspective? Here’s my working hypothesis: Even if TM was “just a movie” (Can I tell you HOW MUCH I despise that phrase? Go FANNISH or GO HOME!!!!), then Kermit in the context of the new movie, MMW, is supposed to be a Kermit who has spent the last several, several years away from his friends. For him to feel abandoned by them was really tough to see, but every time he starts to emote, the moment is interrupted, snatched away, stolen. (More on this later....)

We’re Doing a Sequel—there are some moments in the movie where Piggy’s attributes look…odd. In this number, while I loved the shot of her emerging off the cart, swathed and sunglassed, only to arrive in full splendor in the dance line, I really couldn’t figure out what was going on with her costume. Her white jacket shows a lot of…something in the middle, and whatever it is, it is covered with sparkling rhinestones. Is this a gold shirt? Is it supposed to be cleavage? After the first time—I’ve seen it three times now—I watched to see if I could tell what I’m looking at, and I can’t. If it’s her shirt—a gold shirt—then it needed to be different enough from her skin tone to not look like she was almost, er, not wearing anything but sparkles there. There is also a disturbing lack of definition to her cleavage in this shot that doesn’t seem to be a problem in her other clothes. I’m still grousing about her hair. Her hair for the wedding was noticeably uneven and the wrong color. What the heck happened? Also, the flat hair with the braid around her head like a headband was all wrong, although that blue and white dress was fab. I think I have revised my opinion about her hair being up in some scenes—I liked it better the more I saw it. I’m not saying it’s a great look (Although it’s impossible to make you look bad, Pumpkin!) but I didn’t hate it the second and third time through the movie.

If others can be interested in the cinematography, then I am interested in the clothes/wardrobe. Kermit’s gulag wardrobe, by the way, was excellent, right down…er, up, to his hat. The weave of the cloth was the right scale—it was exceptionally well done. Likewise, all the fellows looked very good in their tuxes in the opening number. I particularly noticed that Rowlf is well-dressed in this movie. Link, as usual, is impeccable. Scooter made my heart go pitter-pat in his tuxedo minus the coat—I am such a sucker for a man in a vest. Although I swear I am going to have Howard and Thoreau burn that green letterman’s jacket. Scooter is too much of a showman to do “Moves Like Jagger” wearing his usual. (Hmmm…picturing Scooter in leather pants and a shredded t-shirt and finding the idea sort of funny…hahahaha!) Also, Walter’s sweaters in particular lent believability to his character. Walter may be a muppet, but he grew up in the real world and had a regular, everyday wardrobe. Gonzo was very natty, but I could have stood a more outrageous ties or cactus-covered suspenders or some such. I notice that Janice and Piggy were both wearing more jewelry than usual. I didn’t mind in Piggy’s case but there was…so much of it—it reminded me a little of the Disney spot they did about dressing Demi Lovato for “Sunny with a Chance.” Nadya was well-dressed and the gulag prisoners costumes were well done. I also enjoyed the detail we got to see on Sweetum’s hand in the restaurant scene with Dominic—likewise his waltzing clothes, which worked very well. Also…speaking of cinematography—was anyone else a little bit disconcerted by how…well…fuzzy Piggy looks in this movie. She definitely looks plushy, and I’m more used to seeing her with the illusion of porcelain-smooth skin. She’s not the only one—Kermit, Walter and Floyd also had moments of supreme plushiness that really jumped out at me.

Every moment that we got to see the real Kermit act was grand. He's self-effacing and adorable in "We're Doing a Sequel," and I liked the dogged way Kermit pursued fame and fortune (or should that be "riches and famous-ness"?) for his little band of performers. I found him believable when he appeared overwhelmed and nervous about the success of their first venture in a while after years (in the story) of being apart (see comment above about Kermit’s reality). Frustratingly, every time Kermit had a tender moment—it is interrupted or cut off abruptly. Here are the tender moments and their cut offs:

1. When Kermit is about to have a genuine moment of disclosure with his friends/cast about his concerns over selling out the show, Dominic just horns right in, cutting off Kermit by crowing about being sold out. Kermit never gets to be vulnerable with his friends. He doesn’t get to be relieved with them when they DO sell out. His emotion and momentum are cut out from under him in a very unfair way. Also—and this has been mentioned by many, many people who saw the movie—the script just can’t stop taking pot-shots at our guys. Kermit mutters, “Yeah—like we’ve sold out a theater in years!” Well, in this canon, they have been apart for a long time, but when they did their reunion show in TM, they DID sell out. Why, then, did the writers—who presumably KNOW that the theater was FULL during the last movie’s telethon (because I doubt the street would be FULL of people while there were empty seats in the theater….) feel compelled to say AGAIN that the muppets don’t have a strong fan base and can’t pull in an audience. (mutters about the dangers of self-prophesying)
2. Kermit asking in his cell, “Where are you guys?” That was a punch in the gut each time I saw the movie. If the Kermit in this movie has been away from his friends, and is not a producer pretending to have been recently reunited with his friends, then this plaintive plea is rather heart-wrenching, don’t you think? When Piggy left and Kermit lost his mojo and the rest of them all wandered off, Kermit retreated from his life and his dreams. Better to become a recluse than admit you ruined your own happiness by running off the one that you loved and all of your friends….
3. Kermit clear delight at seeing Fozzie and Walter and Animal backstage was just great, but that privilege should have belonged to Scooter instead of Walter (see later comments). There is so much in Kermit’s face—relief, joy, giddiness. Kudos to Steve for a fantastic job all through.
4. Kermit is clearly heartbroken when he asks Fozzie and Walter (just Fozzie and Walter—no one else—not Piggy, not Rowlf, not Scooter….) if nobody realized he had been replaced by a terrible, untalented look-alike. Yet, before they can deal with that genuine emotion, the newspaper delivery interrupts and they have to act. Could Kermit not get just a minute—just a minute here? And wouldn’t one of his first questions have been, “What about Piggy—didn’t Piggy notice I was gone?” Regardless of how you feel about the frog/pig relationship (and you all know how I feel—I saw their last wedding and I haven’t seen annulment papers!), Kermit feelings for Piggy were CENTRAL to the LAST MOVIE—and this is a continuation of that storyline. (Don’t start—they could have made a fresh start with this movie and filmed it totally without referencing the last movie—but they didn’t.) Kermit was worried enough about not having Piggy—both for his cast and as his woman—that he went and recruited Miss Poogy, a desperate act if there ever was one. Miss Poogy, whom I think we all realize now must be a sow impersonator, did not fool anyone in the cast for one minute into thinking “she” was Miss Piggy. You will remember that Piggy was opening skeptical about calling Poogy “sister,” and our girl’s instincts are dead on! You go, girlfriend!
5. I love how Kermit manages to endear himself to everyone at the prison, from the prisoners to the guards. It is clear from his interchanges that Kermit had become quite beloved by his fellow prisoners, by Nadya, by the other guards. His winsome and genuine ways have made him a favorite with all whom he meets.
6. While Kermit sings to Piggy’s poster, imagining their life together, we don’t ever get to hear him say, “I thought you’d forgotten me, Piggy.” Wouldn’t her indifference hurt on a different level than, say, Gonzo’s? Remember, in this story line, Gonzo was pretty ticked at Kermit and dismissive when he showed up. It was only Walter’s encouragement and shameless hero worship that compelled Gonzo to show his true colors. Gonzo is a muppet of deep feelings, and I imagine he repressed a lot to abandon his performance art and go into plumbing again. But Kermit—who saved a torn-up wedding photo of Piggy for years and years and years, and wandered around the big house that she had built for them to live in (in this storyline)—doesn’t even have a specific emoting moment about Piggy’s abandonment. Apparently, he doesn’t know, by the way, that Constantine has taken his place with the muppets—the picture in the paper does not include Constantine/Kermit—just the old gang. I am assuming that he is not allowed to read the newspapers Nadya shows him. If he was then he’d know that the gang were being infiltrated/fooled by a dangerous imposter. How sad Kermit would be to realize how easily his friends were fooled by a half-baked effort at impersonation. (Why don't we get to see "Kermit/Constantine" sing Rainbow Connection--since he tells Jean he sings it?)
7. When Kermit goes in to rescue Piggy, why don’t they try to rally the forces? I LOVE the way he is so self-assured and determined to when sneaking in and getting Walter and Fozzie and Animal into the tower. Fozzie comments that Kermit is “like James Bond.” I concur—a self-assured frog is a sexy frog. But why does he try to take down “the world’s most dangerous frog” with only Fozzie and Walter and Animal when ALL OF HIS FRIENDS ARE IN THE CHAPEL? Why didn’t they run into the chapel and yell, Yell, YELL for HELP? And WHERE, exactly, are all of the people (human people, presumably) who arrived for Piggy’s wedding in limos and such? The chapel contains only muppets and the minister, so who arrived in those vehicles?
8. (Um…my list of Kermit emoting moments morphed into something else—deal with it.) Piggy is still treated like her talent is a big joke. We get to see her singing her heart out (in an amazingly fashionable tweed ensemble) and then backstage (in a gorgeous dressing gown). She is in full voice and wonderful, her singing soulful and full of emotion. But when the Muppet Show audiences see her, they cover their ears and moan and groan. How disrespectful is that? If MMW is a movie that Kermit is filming with his friends—his old friends Fozzie and Scooter and Gonzo and Piggy and his new friends Walter and Tina—then the real Piggy has a right to be completely ticked off at him. Where does he get off implying that audiences cringe when she performs? If this is a movie, I can’t see her sitting still for it. If it isn’t a movie—if this is something that is happening in Kermit’s real life, it’s not better. If this is real life, Piggy’s talent is a joke, her singing terrible. This reminds me uncomfortably of a boy who says lovely, complimentary things to a girl when they are alone together, but talks trash about her to his friends when she’s not there.
9. I don’t like Tina Fey—I find her all her humor mean-spirited and she is too sarcastic all the time to appeal to me—but I think she performs well here. Only…only…could the human actors please GET OFF THE STAGE so I can see more of my muppet friends? I miss them, and I turned in just to see them, so I really want to see less of them than I do of, say, Gonzo. We see the gulag prisoners performing End of the Road, a song from A Chorus Line, a ballet, a dance number with gulag tshirts and a minder number. I was pretty tired of union suits by the time it was all over. Why then are the muppet skits we get to see so few and far between? Come on dvd….
10. I love Walter—I really do. He is a valuable addition to the Muppets and I’m so glad we have him. Still, I can’t help but feel that Walter sort of took over Scooter’s role here in much the same way Constantine took over Kermit’s role. I think, had Walter not ever been introduced, that Scooter could have simply said Walter’s lines in the movie and had the share of the film that he should have had instead of being stuck around the edges as it was. My only objection to that is that Scooter just isn’t that gullible or dumb—he wouldn’t have had the “Oh my goodness—Constantine looks like Kermit only with a mole!” thing going on. Keep in mind that it is supposed to be something of a joke that Gonzo can’t recognize Camilla out of all the chickens. It is, in my opinion, the fatal flaw of this plot that the muppets cannot recognize Kermit and don’t really notice when he’s not at the helm. There is never an admission by the other performers that the show is any different without Kermit there—only Walter notices and complains. That should have been Scooter. When Walter is the first—the FIRST –to put his hands forward for handcuffs—not Fozzie, not, Rowlf, not Gonzo, either—my heart just ached for Scooter. Scooter has been displaced by a newcomer who wasn’t even angling for Scooter’s job!! How horrible is that?!
11. Also—where is the Piggy that I know, who will swat a woman into the next block for putting moves on her man, er, frog. Nadya would be toast, taser or no taser. Piggy would thrash anyone who threatens her frog, wedding dress or no wedding dress. (Could the Piggy going up the aisle have looked a little less mechanical, please? This was a very amateurish showing from a company that has a waldo in the Smithsonian….) Also, so many people on this thread alone have commented on it, but why was Celine Dion taking over Piggy’s big solo? It was so glaring that we all noticed how out of character it was for Piggy to let ANYONE horn in on her big number. Also, I’m pretty certain Piggy would have characterized the songs that she sang as “Songs that were sung by some other singer—no one important.” If WE all noticed Piggy was out of character—why didn’t the writers of this movie? In my book, that’s a fair question. How can it be that we know the characters better than they do? (The word “obsessed” does come to mind….) Seriously—maybe the characters in this movie don’t know the difference between Kermit and a frog that looks like Kermit (more or less) because the writers….well, I suppose there’s no point in making that rather depressing point. I felt really happy with Jason at the helm—not because I was a huge Jason Segal fan—I wasn’t. I felt good about the movie because I knew that the characters would be treated with reverence and honor.
12. The more times I saw Sam and Ty together, the more I enjoyed it—and I loved it the first time I saw it. Can anyone explain to me why sometimes it sounds like Sam says “Sean,” and sometimes it sounds like Sam says “Jean”?
13. Hobo Joe and his hobo buddies were in the house! That made me perk up a bit.
14. I watched particularly for Rizzo in the restaurant scene—it was good to see him even if we didn’t hear much.
15. I watched for Annie Sue—she is talking in the background a lot. I can hear that she’s talking without being clear about what she’s saying—what a shame she didn’t get more of a “moment.”
16. The rat band providing back-up for Constantine’s singing was a great little addition. Rizzo’s species was well-represented even if he wasn’t.
17. I think I really admired Kermit when Dominic tells everyone “We’re sold out!” because Kermit’s initial reaction is really snotty—but almost immediately, he gets himself under control and makes an appropriately polite response. He also doesn’t tell Dominic to get lost when he comes out to the stage where Kermit is sitting alone and basically insults and degrades him—which took some real self-restraint.
18. Newsie! Newsie was there not once but twice, although nothing fell on him. Do you suppose that the new writers don’t know that disaster is always supposed to…sigh. I did like his Spanish hat in the opening number of the Spanish Muppet Show.
19. Die Muppets was pretty funny…I’m usually amused by “word humor.”
20. I admit it, Constantine has grown on me. I think the moment I decided I liked him was during my third watching when he was sitting there nervously knitting and Dominic comes in and knows instantly that something is wrong. There is an irony in how well Dominic knows Constantice—well enough to know he’s upset just be seeing him knit, but Kermit’s friends don’t notice all the things about Constantine that would tell them he’s not Kermit.

It was a distinct pleasure to go again and enjoy the movie. it was a pleasure to know that I am contributing to the movie's "take" by going several times and taking others with me. I hope I get credit for being a fan--a good fan, a real fan--and not chastised for wanting to "natter over the details." Comment are welcome.

Auntie Ru

 

[Pinkflower7783]

Annnnd once again we're back to Kermit and Piggy... See? They make the muppet world go round. Now that should be a song. Actually I'm just kidding I really don't think it should.

 

[JimAndFrank]

Eeeeeek!!!! I'm seeing it in less then 12 hours! Finally! I'm so psyched! I can't stop shaking! Somebody hold me down!

 

[Drtooth]

I think (for me) one of the downsides to a long running series like The Muppets is that there is very little wiggle-room for character development. And, I know, they are more about laughs than they are about story -- and always have been.

As I've said a billion times, I think what Roger Langridge did with The Muppet Show actually outshines the original concept. But that's without guest stars to fawn over. I'm glad for him that he left the series when he felt he said all he could, but I severely miss those comics. He gave depth to characters that didn't get to have much. And much as I loved Animal's subplot in The Muppets, I felt Roger did even better with Animal's subplot in The Treasure of Peg Leg Wilson.

 

[Pinkflower7783]

Good grief...

 

[RedPiggy]

Before I read everyone else's comments...

I am thirty-six years old. The Muppets have given me the strength to get through my childhood. STOP TEASING US! It's been referenced TWICE now, and if you do a third movie, it should make the Muppets Take Manhattan look like a cheap Vegas drive through wedding. This isn't just some shipper thing, either. I can never be satisfied by "we don't need to". For me, it's now a matter of sheer principle.

And I want to attend. I don't care how. I don't care how much PTO I need to blow through ... I want to see everyone. EVERYONE. Muppets, Creatures, Humans, etc.

This movie was amazing, but I almost didn't go. I've been trying my best to avoid reviews, but I broke down and watched Chester A. Bum's ... and I almost didn't go. Like Chester, I'm just so tired of "cinema's longest c-k tease." I thought the film was absolutely hilarious, but I can't help feeling severely depressed afterwards. Piggy looked GORGEOUS. (And since I'm a curvy short person myself, maybe Piggy can give me dress shopping tips.)

Okay. Got that off my chest.

 

[Slackbot]

Although I swear I am going to have Howard and Thoreau burn that green letterman’s jacket. Scooter is too much of a showman to do “Moves Like Jagger” wearing his usual.

I would also like to burn that jacket. Not because I dislike it, but because it is a major headache to replicate. I can alter baby clothes for most of the rest, but that jacket, OY.

(Hmmm…picturing Scooter in leather pants and a shredded t-shirt and finding the idea sort of funny…hahahaha!)

You're waving the red flag in front of the bull when you say things like that in a thread I read. You know that, don't you?

I imagine that that act was a spur-of-the-moment thing for him. There was a lull between two acts; maybe someone was taking too long for an elaborate costume change or whatever. The stage manager sees an empty stage, figures what the heck, had someone put on a karaoke track, and jumped out in front of the curtains in what he had on at the time. (BTW, in the previews he was singing that song in front of a different background. I wonder what the original plan for that song was.)

I love how Kermit manages to endear himself to everyone at the prison, from the prisoners to the guards.

I like that as well, and I'm impressed by how he accomplished it: first by being nice, and when they tried to run him over he slapped them down hard--yet he was still reasonable. He showed them he wasn't a wimp and earned their respect.

Also, so many people on this thread alone have commented on it, but why was Celine Dion taking over Piggy’s big solo?

Quoted for truth.

Here's one thing that's made me grind my teeth a little every time I see the movie: the third time Gonzo mentions the Indoor Running of the Bulls, Kermit starts to slap him down, and Gonzo says that he was talking to Dominic. That's just like a kid playing one parent against the other, and made me want to take Gonzo by the shoulders and shake him. I won't go so far as to say it's out of character; Gonzo is all about his art, and may lose sight of minor issues (like the temperament of bulls that have been crated for days) in his quest for the perfect act. Still, way to be a jerk, banana beak.