Your Thoughts: Kermit and Miss Piggy on America's Got Talent

[Drtooth]

Yes, I think Steve and Eric's chemistry is great. I was referring to the chemistry from this episode of America's Got Talent.

Something I was getting at, but I had to finish up... See... Eric's used to performing with Steve in the same way Frank is more used to performing with Jim. There's a gonk there because the old performer hs to get used to the new one and visa versa. So there was no doubt friction with a new performer and a more established one.

 

[MelissaY1]

I was a little disappointed with the performance as well. But, in Disney/Steve/Artie's defence, it's just one performance, if it becomes a recurring theme, then we'll have a problem. Everyone is entitled to having a bad night once in awhile, even Kermit.

I say we should all take a few deep breaths and chalk this one up to a bad night and hope for the best in the future.
Afterall, the 55th Anniversary is right around the corner, as is the Halloween special.

As I had posted previously around this board before, the Halloween special isn't happening this year. This came from Craig Shemin's lips himself at the recent 30th anniversary screening for the Muppet Movie at BAM in Brooklyn, NY last month.

 

[Beauregard]

Hmm! Sorry I've not kept up with the discussion (due to moving house...) but I just wanted to add another few cents (and maybe some sense?) to a few things:

Live at Disneyland
I am still not for this. Sure, people want to see the Muppets Live, and it would be better than the full-costume things. But, you KNOW that Chip and Dale the size of a grown man and made of foam are not really Chip or Dale. With the Muppets, they'd be almost identical...and it would be weird. I can't imagine any situation where I'd want to see this...

MUPPETEERS vs MUPPETS

Yes, some of us are worried about Steve -- But most of all we're worried about the Muppets as a Brand, and what this will do to them if the Muppeteers and flip-flopped from performer to performer. What makes the Muppet unique compared to any other television character, is that they are REAL and they can appear in our REAL world on talk shows, at fairgrounds (TMM), and in cars...But if they start appearing with the wrong voice, the wrong appearance, and the wrong feel behind them...well...Frankly, it reduces them from REAL to Felt, Ping-pong balls and an occasional Hi-Ho.

 

[Luke]

Artie is the closest thing to Jim's Kermit, he brought the magic back. The more I watch it, the more I like it. I will upload the footage I have of the in-house Disney stuff and paste a link here for all to check out!

Isn't that an insult to Jim's Kermit? When Kermit opened his mouth to give the host the CD what came out of it was classic ... erm, Scooter (infact so much so you thought it was Rudman)

The performer may have had better days off camera, and i'd love to see that footage ... but this wasn't one of them. Wrong voice, no chemistry, and some stiff puppetry. When Kermit kinda slow motion laughed in the judges direction after Piggy had told him off it was out of place, and most of his expressions throughout were really over exagerated, the frog wouldn't be that on edge. He's used to dealing with the pig.

Now you say you like it and the magic is back, before you were saying please don't judge the performer on this *expletive*. Make your mind up, lol

 

[MWoO]

I'd like to see this footage as well.

From what I saw there was no "magic". Kermit and Piggy barely interacted during this. Piggy was singing to Kermit, but Kermit seemed to be looking off to the side of Piggy and at the end when Piggy tried to interact with Kermit and ad lib, Kermit stayed totally quiet. That's "magic"?

Kermit's performance reminded me of someone who knows the mechanics of puppetry, but doesn't quite know what to do with the puppet between lines. This is particularly noticeable at the end and beginning. Then of course, everyone mentioned the part with the CD where Kermit just looked badly performed. Any one of us could probably work a puppet, but acting with a puppet is the tricky part. Frank Oz, and later Eric, know how to act with Piggy. Not once do you think Piggy is a puppet. In this clip Kermit was obviously a puppet.

 

[GonzoLover85]

For those that haven't seen this controversial footage, here's a link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Fs7NUSWRCs

Clearly Kermit's voice is way off.

 

[dwmckim]

In regards to the comments about the time it spends to work up from right-handing...

I mentioned upthread about how i've generally thought of there being four "tier levels" of Muppeteers (for a number of years, i thought of this as three tiers but over the last couple, i've adjusted this to four) based on how much work they do with the Muppets and not necessarily talent level. They're not even really based on "experience" as much either other than obviously those just starting out would start out on the fourth tier. When i talked about this, i mentioned that a lot of us are a bit concerned since we saw a first tier Muppeteer being subbed by a fourth tier one.

Now as this pertains to Richard's hazings of newer Muppeteers who were anxious to move up, for one thing, as great as the guy was in many ways, he could be a bit overly vicious at times (whether it be with newbies or Jim himself) - but at least he was also aware of that character trait of his and could balance that out with his generosity - he'd put someone through the wringer and then buy them dinner.

His lectures about how he had to wait eight years before he had a major character while having a good message about how the process does indeed take years...it was also just very exaggerated. For one thing, he fudged big time on how long it took him (it took him six years before he played Scooter and that's even giving him the benefit of the doubt that that was when he reached the level of being able to perform a major character since it was obvious from the two Muppet Show pilots beforehand that he was a valued enough member of the team to be doing signifcant roles. Even though the character itself didn't become a star, four years prior to Scooter, he was cast as Mildred in Valentine Show and if one just looks as that production as its own entity - a pilot that hopefully would be picked up as a regular series, he was playing someone with a good amount of screen time/lines and whose role seemed to be the group's den mother - someone who kept a fair amount of order and kept others under control. She was the main one to chat with the guest star when she arrived. He had lines as early as his 1970 debut in the Great Santa Claus Switch, he was just as much a part of the ensemble by 1972 when they did the Wild String Quartet sketch on Ed Sullivan and was starting to get a number of supporting roles in Sesame sketches within that year. So while the message he would try to convey to the newer Muppeteers had merit as a lesson, he couldn't really use himself as the best example to illustrate this point - and he had to do a lot of exaggerating to sell it.

...Plus things have greatly changed over the last few decades. In Richard's day, not a lot of people thought about being a television puppeteer/Muppeteer as a full time career. Someone like Richard could telephone up Henson, be told that auditions were that day and he could essentially walk in off the street without much experience and not only be considered but also cast. These days, people grow up thinking it may be a career path they may want to take. They have the chance to work with local troups/stations and other puppetry teams before they do they audition for Henson (as was the case with Steve and Kevin). Due to the advent of camcorders, someone can train themselves at an early age how to work in front of a camera (and do so while viewing a monitor). One could also attend workshops, classes, even colleg training. A puppeteer just starting to work with Henson can come in with a lot of skills already well developed. Of course, once they do get in the door, they also have access to what is by now a very well-honed in-house training program that further hones the skills they're coming in with. Now this doesn't imply that one shouldn't work their way up starting on that fourth tier and working their way up a tier at a time (it is possible to maybe skip a tier but shouldn't really be more than one), but the time it takes to advance can be quite quick compared to how long it used to take.

Still that first tier is a very special one. Artie is obviously very good and will be a huge asset to the Muppet team. But to take on a task like this one was too big a jump too soon - for anyone to expect him to give a Steve-level performance regardless of raw talent or skillset he's shown behind the scenes was unrealistic. It's a bit like turning over CEO duties of a major company to someone who just joined it less than a year ago even though they may have demonstrated super leadership ability in their local branch. He may be one of the Muppets' most valued performers within the next five to ten years, but to take over for Kermit at this point was just too ambitious an undertaking. And i think all of us will have an unresolved sense of restlessness until we find out what happened with Steve and who will be performing Kermit the next time we see him.

 

[zns]

In regards to the comments about the time it spends to work up from right-handing...

I mentioned upthread about how i've generally thought of there being four "tier levels" of Muppeteers (for a number of years, i thought of this as three tiers but over the last couple, i've adjusted this to four) based on how much work they do with the Muppets and not necessarily talent level. They're not even really based on "experience" as much either other than obviously those just starting out would start out on the fourth tier. When i talked about this, i mentioned that a lot of us are a bit concerned since we saw a first tier Muppeteer being subbed by a fourth tier one.

Now as this pertains to Richard's hazings of newer Muppeteers who were anxious to move up, for one thing, as great as the guy was in many ways, he could be a bit overly vicious at times (whether it be with newbies or Jim himself) - but at least he was also aware of that character trait of his and could balance that out with his generosity - he'd put someone through the wringer and then buy them dinner.

His lectures about how he had to wait eight years before he had a major character while having a good message about how the process does indeed take years...it was also just very exaggerated. For one thing, he fudged big time on how long it took him (it took him six years before he played Scooter and that's even giving him the benefit of the doubt that that was when he reached the level of being able to perform a major character since it was obvious from the two Muppet Show pilots beforehand that he was a valued enough member of the team to be doing signifcant roles. Even though the character itself didn't become a star, four years prior to Scooter, he was cast as Mildred in Valentine Show and if one just looks as that production as its own entity - a pilot that hopefully would be picked up as a regular series, he was playing someone with a good amount of screen time/lines and whose role seemed to be the group's den mother - someone who kept a fair amount of order and kept others under control. She was the main one to chat with the guest star when she arrived. He had lines as early as his 1970 debut in the Great Santa Claus Switch, he was just as much a part of the ensemble by 1972 when they did the Wild String Quartet sketch on Ed Sullivan and was starting to get a number of supporting roles in Sesame sketches within that year. So while the message he would try to convey to the newer Muppeteers had merit as a lesson, he couldn't really use himself as the best example to illustrate this point - and he had to do a lot of exaggerating to sell it.

...Plus things have greatly changed over the last few decades. In Richard's day, not a lot of people thought about being a television puppeteer/Muppeteer as a full time career. Someone like Richard could telephone up Henson, be told that auditions were that day and he could essentially walk in off the street without much experience and not only be considered but also cast. These days, people grow up thinking it may be a career path they may want to take. They have the chance to work with local troups/stations and other puppetry teams before they do they audition for Henson (as was the case with Steve and Kevin). Due to the advent of camcorders, someone can train themselves at an early age how to work in front of a camera (and do so while viewing a monitor). One could also attend workshops, classes, even colleg training. A puppeteer just starting to work with Henson can come in with a lot of skills already well developed. Of course, once they do get in the door, they also have access to what is by now a very well-honed in-house training program that further hones the skills they're coming in with. Now this doesn't imply that one shouldn't work their way up starting on that fourth tier and working their way up a tier at a time (it is possible to maybe skip a tier but shouldn't really be more than one), but the time it takes to advance can be quite quick compared to how long it used to take.

Still that first tier is a very special one. Artie is obviously very good and will be a huge asset to the Muppet team. But to take on a task like this one was too big a jump too soon - for anyone to expect him to give a Steve-level performance regardless of raw talent or skillset he's shown behind the scenes was unrealistic. It's a bit like turning over CEO duties of a major company to someone who just joined it less than a year ago even though they may have demonstrated super leadership ability in their local branch. He may be one of the Muppets' most valued performers within the next five to ten years, but to take over for Kermit at this point was just too ambitious an undertaking. And i think all of us will have an unresolved sense of restlessness until we find out what happened with Steve and who will be performing Kermit the next time we see him.

Very well said DW. You're certainly one of many people who know how to look at things from a critical perspective.

 

[CensoredAlso]

His lectures about how he had to wait eight years before he had a major character while having a good message about how the process does indeed take years...it was also just very exaggerated....So while the message he would try to convey to the newer Muppeteers had merit as a lesson, he couldn't really use himself as the best example to illustrate this point - and he had to do a lot of exaggerating to sell it.

Well I think that is a good example of the method many teachers are forced to use at times, "Do as I say, not as I do."

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I liked the appearance just fine, and I look forward to more and more Muppety goodness on TV, on the net, and even better: In a tv series or motion picture! WOO HOO!