Where is Steve Whitmire Petition

[Kynan Barker]

If Kermit on a current T.V. show even if it's a lousy few minute appearance pulls in some ratings, they're going to stick with that formula.

Melissa, I agree completely that publicity is the key to bringing the Muppets back to the bigtime.

My point is that an appearance that lasts "a lousy few minutes" only has promotional value if the appearance itself isn't lousy.

Whatever the Muppets do, however brief it may be, it has to be good enough to make people want more. And that means bringing their A game every time.

 

[Zack the Dog]

Wayne Allwine did pass away back in on May 18 2009.

 

[Kynan Barker]

I think what it comes down to is, if this was replacing Jim's Kermit, I probably would mind.

This is the first time I've seen the slippery slope argument presented as a positive thing. Does this mean if next week Artie is replaced by an even less competent performer, you won't mind as much since Artie's already third generation?

Agree totally, definitely not a crime to be a beginner. Encourage it and wish i could do it. The point is maybe a beginner shouldn't be starting to learn their character on Americas Got Talent and the MTV Awards.

I agree, Luke. I've said before, Disney can't think Artie is ready to perform Kermit in front of 10 million people and at the same time ask fans to go easy on him because he's only a beginner.

Main point is whatever the internal situation, they need to sort their quality control out, they are meant to be the best puppets in the world and its a multi-million dollar brand.

It's scary how much I find myself agreeing with Luke these days. This multi-million dollar quote is right on the money.

Though in the early days of the Muppets there were quite a few "rough" performances to be seen.

Of course, but I don't think anyone here (yourself included) is seriously arguing that a return to those rough standards would be a good thing.

I think our standards of quality have definitely gone up as technology improved. That doesn't mean the imperfect things that came before it were no good.

Absolutely. Those performances were amazing for their time, and I treasure having them in my DVD collection like any other fan. But does anyone think the Muppets should go back to those golden days of bad lip-synch and visible heads?

I mean to me (as a total outsider hehe), the puppetry should be so good you don't notice it.

And the fact that we've clearly all noticed it is clear evidence that those standards have lapsed.

 

[theprawncracker]

Kynan -
Just wanted to pop in and say what an amazing job I think you're doing of fighting this good fight both here and on Tough Pigs. You're providing one of the few great voices of reason and support, thank you for that.

I just wanted to mention that I too got an e-mail response from Lylle Breier. Very courteous, nice woman. She made me feel reassured and apprehensive at the same time, though.

All I can say is that right now I'm still feeling like there are some behind the scenes negotiations going on that affect Steve and Kermit. That's why we can't know if Artie is permanent--because he might not be.

I just pray that this all blows over soon, and Steve returns in full-force in time for the Fuzzy Renaissance next year!

 

[Kynan Barker]

Just wanted to pop in and say what an amazing job I think you're doing of fighting this good fight both here and on Tough Pigs. You're providing one of the few great voices of reason and support, thank you for that.

Thanks Ryan, but this isn't about me, it's just about Kermit.

One thing that's worth pointing out is that while the fan debate rages over whether Artie is or isn't an acceptable replacement, the larger issue of recasting is being ignored. As long as the focus stays on Artie and Kermit specifically, nobody here is talking about whether it's a good idea for Disney to use substitutes in general.

Here's a question for those of us who happen to think Artie has Jim's "vibe" or the right vocal "tone" -- does that mean you're in favor of multiple Piggys or Fozzies or Gonzos? Because that's what this conversation is ultimately about.

Even Artie's biggest supporter would have to think twice if, say, Drew Massey's French-sounding imitation Pepe suddenly showed up on the scene. Or do we then start multiple threads to argue over whose Pepe is closer to the "true" Pepe, while Disney goes ahead and recasts Floyd, Robin, Rizzo and the rest?

Whether or not any of us personally feels Artie is a great Kermit is actually beside the point. What I want every member of this board to think about is this question: Are we going to let Disney think the fans are willing to accept imitation Muppets in principle?

We won't get to vote on these things if and when they happen. But if Disney can suddenly recast Kermit -- the flagship Muppet character -- and we fans don't react against it, that sends a huge signal to Disney that recasts don't matter to us.

And once Disney gets that signal, what we think of Artie Esposito as Kermit will be the least of our problems.

 

[frogboy4]

Thanks Ryan, but this isn't about me, it's just about Kermit.

One thing that's worth pointing out is that while the fan debate rages over whether Artie is or isn't an acceptable replacement, the larger issue of recasting is being ignored. As long as the focus stays on Artie and Kermit specifically, nobody here is talking about whether it's a good idea for Disney to use substitutes in general.

Here's a question for those of us who happen to think Artie has Jim's "vibe" or the right vocal "tone" -- does that mean you're in favor of multiple Piggys or Fozzies or Gonzos? Because that's what this conversation is ultimately about.

Even Artie's biggest supporter would have to think twice if, say, Drew Massey's French-sounding imitation Pepe suddenly showed up on the scene. Or do we then start multiple threads to argue over whose Pepe is closer to the "true" Pepe, while Disney goes ahead and recasts Floyd, Robin, Rizzo and the rest?

Whether or not any of us personally feels Artie is a great Kermit is actually beside the point. What I want every member of this board to think about is this question: Are we going to let Disney think the fans are willing to accept imitation Muppets in principle?

We won't get to vote on these things if and when they happen. But if Disney can suddenly recast Kermit -- the flagship Muppet character -- and we fans don't react against it, that sends a huge signal to Disney that recasts don't matter to us.

And once Disney gets that signal, what we think of Artie Esposito as Kermit will be the least of our problems.

I'm wondering how Disney plans to proceed with their Muppet push. I think they really want to make sure the characters are out there as much as possible and that (in their estimation) would require a B performer for B-level events while the more valuable A talent is working on larger-scale things. One of the cool things that set the Muppets apart is their ability to actually be places live with people. However, if the characters get passed around not much of that could matter because they'd all end up seeming like mere puppets rather than Muppets. I'm not sure what to think. It would be great if Dave, Steve and the gang were all young hungry entertainers with endless energy and time, but they're not.

The only time I think recasts could be okay is in Disney parks for Muppet Mobile Labs or the Mobile Mayhem attraction. Maybe even a meet-a-Muppet sort of thing where guests could take a picture and interact with a Muppet character at the park, but that could be stretching it. I still say that type of attraction would be better than those large costumed Muppets.

 

[Davina]

you bring up a great question regarding replacements..

on one hand, I really really wish all the muppeteers could be around forever, but, realistically, I know, and we've experienced reality and the changes that that sometimes forces on us, planned and unplanned. Several great performers have passed away suddenly, or chosen to step down due to age, illness, or desire for change.
While I haven't always agreed with Disney's practices in the past (still don't) I can completely understand a desire on their part to have well prepared and trained understudies available to fill in or take over the lead roles as needed.
This sort of thing was done with Frank/Eric and the change over went much more smoothly then did Jim/Steve and the parceling out of other departed performers where characters wound up being shelved for months or years while they waited for someone who could fill the role.
I am willing to accept this as a very real policy on the part of Disney. They would want the understudies to get some on screen practise and experience from time to time, and I can see that happening with some of the lower key, low priority outings, late night talk show pop in spots, or the mtv award bit (i didn't see that, but I somehow doubt that Kermit was really the intended focus of the bit..didn't see the other bit either.) But anyway the outings that would be expected to get lower ratings from their main target market. I would fully expect, however, that the main performer would do all the "big" appearances (unless there was a real reason he needed to be elsewhere..)
Would i want there to be 3, 5, 20 understudies? no, never. Do i fear that Disney would go that way anyway? yes, very much I do. quality would go way down and I would be extremely sad that my children and grandchildren would have to settle for less then I was able to enjoy.
so I would be torn, I can totally understand the need and desire to have well trained understudies available, but I fear they are willing to drop quality for quantity..



and as for our intrepid understudy. I haven't seen either of your performances so can not comment on quality, but will say that I'm sure that you did the best you could at the time and that your performances will improve over time and none of the comments made here should be seen as personal attacks. We were very unsure and critical about Steve when he took over, and there were plenty of comments made about Eric when he first showed up as well. While we all hope to have many many years left with Steve, if, for some reason, you are going to be taking over, even part time or just for a little while depending on what is going on.. we will probably eventually like your performances too... A good deal of the angst comes from the shock and the suddeness and the deathly seal of silence that seems to surround the whole deal..

 

[Kynan Barker]

I think they really want to make sure the characters are out there as much as possible and that (in their estimation) would require a B performer for B-level events while the more valuable A talent is working on larger-scale things.

That raises the question of what constitutes a "B-level" appearance. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 million people saw "Kermit" on America's Got Talent. If Steve's working on something larger-scale than that, I'd love to know about it.

I agree with you, Jamie: If people are expecting The Muppets, that's who they should get -- accept no substitutes. Walk-arounds and whiz-bang technology (Mobile Labs etc) would be the only exceptions.

I've always argued that if an event is worthy of a Muppet appearance, then a real Muppet is who should appear. That's equally true from the smallest personal encounter right through to the biggest blockbuster. Any breach of that rule just ruins the magic, and Disney needs to understand that.

 

[ploobis]

I remember reading that back in the 80's Jim Henson was so busy with other projects that he was looking for people to fill in for him as Kermit for stuff like guest appearances or something like that.

I can't remember where I read that, But I wonder if that's whats happening with Steve.

I still believe that we'll soon get an explanation about Steve's absents.

 

[Kynan Barker]

I remember reading that back in the 80's Jim Henson was so busy with other projects that he was looking for people to fill in for him as Kermit for stuff like guest appearances or something like that.

Multiple sources have reported that Jim was considering the possibility of finding alternates or understudies, but he never put the plan into action.

The fact that Jim merely considered something like this doesn't mean he would ultimately have decided to do it. I mean, this is a guy who had a LOT of ideas.

By the same token, we can't know that he would have been against it either. But I'll say this: In his lifetime, Jim Henson -- a famously busy writer/director/producer/performer with multiple projects constantly in production and more in development -- was the only person who ever performed Kermit in public.

So that doesn't lend a lot of weight to the idea that Kermit is too big a job for one man to handle. Especially considering Steve is a full-time puppeteer.