When you need to rant...

[Drtooth]

So? As a Christian, I don't consider that a compliment. At all. I consider that superstitious, old fashioned, and needlessly fearful. I'm a big girl and can handle a cartoon of Jesus, thank you, lol.

No. Seriously. That's in there. Not making it up. TRUE Islam respects the other prophets of other religions. That is true and not that overly angry politicized crap.

Probably. If she staged an event to troll Nazis would you be so against it? Or the Klan back the '20s when they were especially violent, should people have just avoided "upsetting" them back then?

I'm sorry but free speech doesn't only protect the nicey nicey speech that makes everybody feel nice and cuddly. It does, and has to, include hateful speech. If I allowed someone else's speech to be censored, tomorrow I could be the next target. Policing speech, even with good intentions, just doesn't work.

Which I totally get. But this wasn't a rally of free speech. It was a rally of hate from hypocrites, quite possibly an effort of self sabotage on the crazy woman header's part. I'm giving it a huge benefit of the doubt saying it wasn't an inside job here. I mean, gun loving Texas doesn't have a security guard with a gun? Suspicious. I don't want to say it's like she wanted something like that to happen, but it's clear that something bad would have happened, and it would have made her and her group look like victims.

As for the free speech aspect, yes. We can't police that stuff, even if it means the KKK and the WBC can do whatever the heck they want. That's the double edged sword. Still, there's also a thing called common courtesy and not being a donk. This wasn't an event to say "militants are bad" this was an event to say "everyone of a particular religion is bad and the religion is bad." Which is essentially racism, making them a hate group. Where's the satire in that?! That's no different than the "Innocence of Muslims" video. It's not attacking the root of the problem, it's making the root of the problem angrier and more prone to attacks. True, normal, rational people were just disgusted... I bet some just said "of course they'd do this" with an eye roll. But the clear and obvious goal was to rile up violence with crazies. Christians don't like when Atheists say they're stupid and violent, but some have no problem stooping to their level for others. If you're going to be dense and say "X religion is stupid and violent" you might as well say "all religions are stupid and violent." No one likes being painted with a brush, and the more dangerous members of groups should be marginalized and ostracized.

Now, if this group were to say, I dunno, make nasty caricatures of political figures who actually are the root of the problem. Maybe drawing a bunch of fat, spoiled kids as terrorists saying "I'd love to die for our cause, but the new Halo's coming out." THAT'S satire. Something everyone can agree on, and much smarter and well thought out than "All teh Muzlins are teh evil, but don' say nothin bad about us Krystiens."

Still, that group, bunch of diseased parasitic worms they are had every right to do that. Just as everyone else has every right to call them a bunch of minus minded bigots. Free Speech does work both ways. It doesn't mean you can say whatever you want without retribution from others. Just no one has the right to shoot anyone they disagree with.

 

[CensoredAlso]

No. Seriously. That's in there. Not making it up. TRUE Islam respects the other prophets of other religions.

What I'm saying is, I don't see that as respect. At all. If someone wants to draw a mean cartoon of Jesus, let them! It doesn't hurt me, I'm not a child. Life is too short. I don't want or need that kind of "respect."

But this wasn't a rally of free speech. It was a rally of hate from hypocrites

OK, it was about hate. Moving on. I stopped running to the teacher a long time ago. And speaking of hypocrisy, like I said the other day, a lot of the media who were so outraged by this event would be cheering it on under different circumstances (and we know what those are).

Indiana Jones and I hate Nazis. Are we not allowed to troll them because that would be "hateful"?

Still, there's also a thing called common courtesy

Which you can only request. You can't demand it by making people afraid to speak. I used to think this way too, believe me, but it just doesn't work. Plus, I'm pretty sure common courtesy also says, "Don't shoot someone for drawing a cartoon." It's interesting that the cartoon has somehow become more objectionable than the shooting. Talk about your First World problems...

THAT'S satire. Something everyone can agree on

Yeah, I wish, lol. People rarely, if ever, can agree on what is satire and what is clever. That is why it can't be policed.

We are not going to entirely agree on this and that's fine. I'm just glad we have the right to.

 

[Drtooth]

And again, I don't see that as respect. At all. I see it as unwelcome superstition.

It's more of a weird quirk. I don't get it. I also don't get the whole "pigs are so dirty back in the day that you can't watch a cartoon representation of pigs" thing either. Other than that, it's basically my same problem with organized religion. Everything needs reform and the failure to change with the times is what risks religion being irrelevant. Religion is supposed to be a guideline on how to live life based on teachings and stories. When it becomes a series of silly rules that are restrictive and goofy sounding, the priorities are gone. When that spills out into reading between the lines rules that aren't really there, that's when there's a huge problem.

As for the event, my big problem isn't so much what was said or how it was said so much as the fact that A) it was totally meant to incite violence. And even if it wasn't (but totally was), B) as welcome to free speech as they are, it's like they're the only ones welcomed to it and any non-legal action based retaliation (calling them a hate group) that actually doesn't stop them or give them any kind of self realization is somehow a restriction of that. Which gets under my skin, as unless the government is actually censoring the thing, it's not a violation of free speech, it's an example. You can't go around being a complete horse's butt to people and then cry when someone calls you out on it. That's essentially every bully I ever dealt with. So, of course I kinda have a thing about that. So my point is, essentially if you're going to say something nasty, you've forfeit all right to not get called out on it. After all, that's the other guy's right to free speech. Just so it goes, if this was a guy who said something awful on the radio or TV, an advertiser pulling funding is also their right to free speech.

Still, and last time I'm mentioning this... Unless I hear otherwise I'm sure the crazy woman behind this was well protected, if not out of the door before any obvious violent retaliation occurred. The take home that really makes me angry about this? As much as those talentless "cartoonists" who can't come up with anything viable without being offensive (moreso than most adult animation studios) have a right to do what they did, they were put in a point of danger they full well knew could have happened. That's right. The woman behind this put lives in danger to make a point. That's villainous. At the very least, knowing this may attract violent retaliation, the security guards should have been armed to the teeth. Even if this was just all poor planning and oversights, this woman is directly responsible and should get legal retaliation.

 

[CensoredAlso]

It's more of a weird quirk.

Um, to say the least...

Everything needs reform

Which is why we can't start policing criticism just because it wasn't polite enough.

it's making the root of the problem angrier and more prone to attacks

People who would react that way over a cartoon will always be angry and always prone to attack. They could decide tomorrow to attack some other form of expression, until we finally put down our pens altogether. To try and appease them is not only disturbing, but ultimately fruitless.

The woman behind this put lives in danger to make a point.

No. The people who react that way to a cartoon put lives in danger to make a point. That point was, "Keep quiet or you will get hurt." I'm not comfortable pandering to that. Liberalism used to be about taking risks and pushing back. Now sadly it seems to be about stepping back. Again I have to ask, what if we had a candidate they didn't like? They would consider that "hateful" too.

And as for the event, if they hadn't hired any kind of security, I might agree with you.

I had bullies in my life too. The nasty words weren't fun, but the minute one of them (literally) punched me in the stomach was the day I said no more, heh.

 

[D'Snowth]

Okay, it is now official: Melissa McCarthy is the female Steve Carell. She's in like every single new movie now, and the thing of it is, people genuinely dislike her - seriously, read reviews and comments on all these movies she's in, and the only thing people say about them is how much they hate her constantly playing the same sloppy fat woman with an insatiable appetite.

 

[Drtooth]

No. The people who react that way to a cartoon put lives in danger to make a point. That point was, "Keep quiet or you will get hurt." I'm not comfortable pandering to that. Liberalism used to be about taking risks and pushing back. Now sadly it seems to be about stepping back. Again I have to ask, what if we had a candidate they didn't like? They would consider that "hateful" too.

And as for the event, if they hadn't hired any kind of security, I might agree with you.

We live in a world of terrible people who, despite being an overwhelming minority, manage to ruin things for everyone. By all means, had this woman not known about the whole insane "kill those who draw Mohammed" thing (and how could one not), I would look the other way. While I would not call the actions of the cartoonists cowardly by all means (though, quite honestly if they hate those terrorists so much the braver thing would be enlisting to actually fight the freaking guys instead of drawing nasty caricatures), but the organizer is certifiably insane, and I wouldn't put it past her to create an event to draw out a small number of terrorists to say "I'm right about hating Muslims." My beef on this is with the organizer not the cartoonists (who are bigots and talentless jerks regardless). What she did was essentially what Tony Stark did in Iron Man 3, telling the Mandarin to come and get him. Only in this case, he gave them Rhody's home address so he wouldn't get hurt. This woman threw people under the bus, even unintentionally. That's disgusting.

Long story short, these cartoonists had every right to act like jerks, no one had the right to shoot them up, but by all means knowing full well that could have been attacked, why weren't the small number of security guards armed in Texas? Heck, the cartoonists themselves probably had guns themselves and sure as heck could have carried them. There's a difference between risk taking and standing in front of a moving train saying "gee, it might stop" a second before impact. It sucks that we have to be extra cautious about things. No one's arguing that.

Above all. Is this really how we have to combat hate? With more hate? Yeah, I agree that what these groups do goes beyond Barbarism to the point of non-humanism and that religion is clumsily slapped on to justify their actions. Some even are that crazy they believe that it's religiously motivated. But if these cartoonists were bright, they'd go after the real roots of the problem instead of "We not like your religion." Heck, if you're going to make fun of any religious aspect, mock the rich, bored 1800's "clerics" that came up with Wahhabi-ism. You know, the oh so sacred and ancient and totally in their religious text teachings that everything was better back before 1000 AD and they should totally do that. That's the terrorists modus opperendi (dunno if that's the proper spelling). A barely 200 year old doctrine that only a small splinter of the religion bothered with. Heck, the Civil War was older than that.

Actually, that's a nice side rant. The *&^% 1800's, and how bored socialites came up with horrible concepts that ruined the next 2 centuries. Nazi-ism? TOTALLY bored rich fops worried about losing their parent's money.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Above all. Is this really how we have to combat hate? With more hate?

Again, do you think people who would react in such a way to a drawing could ever truly be appeased? They are clearly unbalanced. And they are trying to draw the rest of the world into their insanity. And amazingly, it's working. Every time someone apologizes for drawing a cartoon.

instead of drawing nasty caricatures

It's a drawing. It's not going to bite anyone. Again, I'll draw a nasty caricature of Jesus right now if you like. To call that disrespect is to have extremely questionable priorities. I'm sorry but it feels like we're supposed to be more outraged by a cartoon than a shooting. That is madness.

 

[D'Snowth]

When you try to do a Google Image search for certain characters from different shows and movies, but a vast majority of the results turn up cosplays of the characters instead.

Nothing moer needs to be said.

 

[Drtooth]

At least it's not character porn. I don't mind cosplayers coming up. Just no rule 34 (or whatever the heck it is) with children. I saw some disturbing Billy and Mandy stuff years ago that was just... shudder... If you're going to do that at least age the character up to 18.

 

[D'Snowth]

I know a lot of people gripe about those plaster ads that disrupt you from watching the show you're watching by covering up part of the screen with an ad for another show, and it's understandably frustrating, sure, but they've gotten just downright unbearable now: seriously, those plaster ads are covering like an entire fourth of the whole screen! Divide your TV screen into four squares (or rectangles, whatever), the entire bottom left one is covered in those ads telling you that the new show of the season will be airing on whatever night at whatever o'clock on this channel. This may actually be even more annoying than shrinking and squishing the credits to make room for . . . even more commercials.