Weinstein rolls with Fraggle Rock movie

[beaker]

in his defense i saw it too, but i was a fan of the show and was very dissapointed in the movie...i agree with the R rated movies a parents thing, out of the few movies i do go see in theaters im surprised to see toddlers there(Wanted,Watchmen,300)

Oh I was just teasing Dr Tooth. I see a lot of movies that have people questioning my sanity.

What confuses me, is the series is called "Avatar the last airbender", so to have its name stricken because of James Cameron is so odd. Especially for fans of the show. "well see, Im a fan of the Nickelodeon cartoon Avatar, which is different than James Cameron's Avatar"

 

[Drtooth]

What confuses me, is the series is called "Avatar the last airbender", so to have its name stricken because of James Cameron is so odd. Especially for fans of the show. "well see, Im a fan of the Nickelodeon cartoon Avatar, which is different than James Cameron's Avatar"

I'd also love to say that Jimmy Cameron actually stole the major concept of the film from the odd Osamu Tetsuka film Cleopatra... but unless he frequented X-rated cartoon showing movie houses in the 70's, that's not likely... the whole sending a crew via virtual reality bit... I don't recommend anyone actually look Cleopatra up, though... unless you're 20 something and morbidly curious. It's not a bad film, but it's very VERY weird. Some of the weirdness is just... out there and you can't unsee it. Ever. Though, the assassination of Caesar being a Kabuki play should be required viewing for anyone who wants anything to do with animation.

As for Airbender... really... I would love to say it's a Nobel effort... but Shaggyman ruined it with his direction. I almost didn't think they were still making the film, and when I first heard James Cameron doing Avatar, I actually thought it WAS that movie. Again, it's one of those films that couldashouldawoulda been better, but too many problems arose with in it. At least they got the character names right, and they looked, for the most part like their cartoon counterparts. Seriously, I still don't see Mathew Broaderick being a fit for the lanky, Don Adams voiced, oblivious Clouseau-esque Inspector Gadget... and the only reason I'll except Rosie O'Donnel as Betty Rubble was that she did the laugh pretty good... still think Rick Moranis, as precious a comedic metal he is, was a bit too neurotic for Barney. But Robin Williams BECAME Popeye. he disappeared into the role. And uh... well, Shelly Duval IS Olive Oyle. And... that isn't a compliment. She really looks, sounds, and talks like Olive Oyle.

Really, making these cartoon based movies is a crap shoot. You could get everything possibly right down to minor character names like Speed Racer, and still fail, or you could just slap together Underdog out of a generic talking dog movie and fail just as bad.

 

[beaker]

I'd also love to say that Jimmy Cameron actually stole the major concept of the film from the odd Osamu Tetsuka film Cleopatra... but unless he frequented X-rated cartoon showing movie houses in the 70's, that's not likely... the whole sending a crew via virtual reality bit... I don't recommend anyone actually look Cleopatra up, though... unless you're 20 something and morbidly curious. It's not a bad film, but it's very VERY weird. Some of the weirdness is just... out there and you can't unsee it. Ever. Though, the assassination of Caesar being a Kabuki play should be required viewing for anyone who wants anything to do with animation.

As for Airbender... really... I would love to say it's a Nobel effort... but Shaggyman ruined it with his direction. I almost didn't think they were still making the film, and when I first heard James Cameron doing Avatar, I actually thought it WAS that movie. Again, it's one of those films that couldashouldawoulda been better, but too many problems arose with in it. At least they got the character names right, and they looked, for the most part like their cartoon counterparts. Seriously, I still don't see Mathew Broaderick being a fit for the lanky, Don Adams voiced, oblivious Clouseau-esque Inspector Gadget... and the only reason I'll except Rosie O'Donnel as Betty Rubble was that she did the laugh pretty good... still think Rick Moranis, as precious a comedic metal he is, was a bit too neurotic for Barney. But Robin Williams BECAME Popeye. he disappeared into the role. And uh... well, Shelly Duval IS Olive Oyle. And... that isn't a compliment. She really looks, sounds, and talks like Olive Oyle.

Really, making these cartoon based movies is a crap shoot. You could get everything possibly right down to minor character names like Speed Racer, and still fail, or you could just slap together Underdog out of a generic talking dog movie and fail just as bad.

I refuse to ever see Airbender, Garfield1 or 2, Chipmunks 1 or 2, Speedracer, Dragonball Evolution, or any of these other abomination efforts.

However SOMETIMES they get it right. Like Addams Family(the first one) which to me hit it out of the park. I agree Popeye was rather good. As for odd foreign films, oh dude...trust me, you and most people wouldnt be able to handle even 5 minutes of the utterly bizarre surreal movies I've gotten off netflix:3 But I do like it when the bizarre experimental visuals fit into a wider framework that works well, like Pan's Labyrinth or The Fall.

M Night I feel has a mighty amazing skill at tension and wonderment. I absolutely LOVE "Signs"(as much as I hated the ending and felt the cheesey green cgi alien ruined it) The birthday video tape scene in it is one of the all time scary scenes in a movie for me. Sixth Sense had its moments, and I liked what Unbreakable was going for, same with the Village.
However its Lady in the Water where his direction and storytelling went way downhill. Lady in the Water, forgive the spoilers, but nothing happens. In fact the entire story and what will happen is explained in the first minutes of the film. "The Happening" should have been called "What Happened To My $10?"
Im all for eco messages but man the "M Night Twist" was pretty lame in that. Airbender is him tackling a new genre but I just cant get interested in seeing that(or Clash of the Titans, or Prince of Persia or any derivitive of "300")

Comic book movies that were just downright amazing are a LOT
better than American cartoons and video games turned into live action films. From The Dark Knight, Constanttine, H---boy, Tank Girl and the first Blade to Ghost World, Road To Perdition and Watchmen...comic book turned live action movie have a much higher success rate of being amazing movies.

 

[Drtooth]

Comic book movies that were just downright amazing are a LOT
better than American cartoons and video games turned into live action films. From The Dark Knight, Constanttine, H---boy, Tank Girl and the first Blade to Ghost World, Road To Perdition and Watchmen...comic book turned live action movie have a much higher success rate of being amazing movies.

Comic book films can be great if done right. I still think Smurfs SHOULD have been tackled as a comic book movie, since it was a brilliant Eurocomic before the US got its hands on it and made it a cartoon series. There are so many subtleties they glaze over in the show that turned it into the annoying little bunch of characters that people remember. Having NOW read the comics, I['d say we would have been in for something a LOT better had Americans actually got them prior to this point. Speaking as a Eurocomics fan, of course. I hope Tintin gets it right.

But when it comes to cartoon based movies, I tend to at least give credit if they actually WATCH them first and cast people who sorta look or act like the characters. I still think we should adopt the theatrical TV cartoon climate other countries have. How awesome would it have been if Nick allowed them to make a PG (at least) Invader Zim movie to close out the show, after pulling the rug out from everyone? How absolutely wonderful would it be to have a show that's airing currently, than some backhanded compliment poorly written live action parody of it 20 years later? Even if they have to be... ugh... Saturday afternoon matinees.

That sort of thing is why a lot of people won't trust an FR movie. And that's the exact same thing I think we should all worry about if they DO get that other writer. This project should be treated as a FR SHOULD have been IF it were made 20 years ago when it was supposed to. Given the right climate, I'd also want to see a GOOD Sesame Street movie. Not just Elmo mugging the camera for 90 minute. There were parts of EIG that were actually quite solid... even going into developing Elmo as a character (something that can't be done on the show, for some reason )... but when he talked to the kids in the audience like it was Elmo's World? Bad... bad bad bad...

 

[Luke]

Considering the Muppet movie is shooting now and the Happy Time Murders is shooting in January, you'd think that Weinstein would want to get something Fraggley in production pretty soon.

It sounds like a money thing. They know Fraggles is going to be a bit of a gamble money wise as it hasn't been around for so long and kids have no clue about them, they can't just bank on the nostalgia with a theatrical movie. Two years back Weinsteins were in a better position financially and could probably have taken the gamble which seems to be what most movie companies have done with these nostalgia brands - some seem to hit, some miss. Now the economy is down even more, the retro boat is starting to sail and there may be danger of missing it ... the one hope is probably that the Muppet movie could create some interest and investment in making this.

If it's internal problems though and Henson have had enough maybe they equally want to just sit on it and make nothing until the Weinstein rights are up. I think we will see something, eventually from somewhere but maybe not for a while - maybe Henson will go to Oz with it like POTDC.

 

[frogboy4]

It sounds like a money thing. They know Fraggles is going to be a bit of a gamble money wise as it hasn't been around for so long and kids have no clue about them, they can't just bank on the nostalgia with a theatrical movie. Two years back Weinsteins were in a better position financially and could probably have taken the gamble which seems to be what most movie companies have done with these nostalgia brands - some seem to hit, some miss. Now the economy is down even more, the retro boat is starting to sail and there may be danger of missing it ... the one hope is probably that the Muppet movie could create some interest and investment in making this.

If it's internal problems though and Henson have had enough maybe they equally want to just sit on it and make nothing until the Weinstein rights are up. I think we will see something, eventually from somewhere but maybe not for a while - maybe Henson will go to Oz with it like POTDC.

I agree. This film has been in development since 2005, but only at Weinstein since 2008. That's a while, but not a terribly long time. Script revisions took a while so basically this comes down to company floundering for the better part of one year. And now more script revisions.

There was a great momentum post-Muppet sale to get the Fraggles out there and earning. The plushes, the DVDs, the CD all came out in a steady stream. Sure, they were a hard sell at first, but they ended up being profitable enough to retain retail interest. I'm still bewildered why they were crazy enough to push back that beautiful glossy Fraggle book or the PVC figures. Mindstyle used the Fraggle image to sell their other wares, but never brought one Fraggley thing to market. I still feel they market this brand entirely wrong. Too high-end and exclusive when they should be as inexpensive and accessible as the Smurfs. Maybe the Hub viewings will increase interest in the Fraggles again. And where the frog did that proposed Doozer kid's show go?

I love the Henson Company and their legacy of films, but I think they need somebody much more aggressive in a management position. There are too many press releases touting proposals that fizzle and become forgotten and too many misguided cinematic flops (Buddy, MirrorMask, Good Boy).

I know we're all focused on Weinstein dropping the ball, but I still feel a Fraggle film should have been made well before it even got to them. Studios should have been chomping at the bit to buy up the rights, but there doesn't seem to be a mechanism in place to maintain that momentum they created. The Henson Company has seemed rather aimless. I am very excited about the Happytime Murders and hope that it's successful enough to get people excited about all things Muppety again.

 

[Drtooth]

I know we're all focused on Weinstein dropping the ball, but I still feel a Fraggle film should have been made well before it even got to them. Studios should have been chomping at the bit to buy up the rights, but there doesn't seem to be a mechanism in place to maintain that momentum they created. The Henson Company has seemed rather aimless. I am very excited about the Happytime Murders and hope that it's successful enough to get people excited about all things Muppety again.

Yes, but no matter what happened, Henson ALWAYS needs a partner to do these films. They're not financially solvent enough to do everything themselves, and if they were, they would have DONE this movie by now. Remember, Good Boy and Buddy were under Sony's partnership. Henson desperately wants this movie... after all, Fraggles is the only strong, solid, family and kid friendly Henson brand NOT controlled by Disney or SW. They want to launch it as their signature brand. Look at the merchandising push it got recently... they have off brand Snuggies.

It sounds like a money thing. They know Fraggles is going to be a bit of a gamble money wise as it hasn't been around for so long and kids have no clue about them, they can't just bank on the nostalgia with a theatrical movie. Two years back Weinsteins were in a better position financially and could probably have taken the gamble which seems to be what most movie companies have done with these nostalgia brands - some seem to hit, some miss. Now the economy is down even more, the retro boat is starting to sail and there may be danger of missing it ... the one hope is probably that the Muppet movie could create some interest and investment in making this.

If it's internal problems though and Henson have had enough maybe they equally want to just sit on it and make nothing until the Weinstein rights are up. I think we will see something, eventually from somewhere but maybe not for a while - maybe Henson will go to Oz with it like POTDC.

Not only are you right, but the sad part is, if Weinstine worked on it 2 years ago, they would have lost funding halfway through, and even if it was finished, they'd sit their fat sullen butts on it like they're doing with Hoodwinked 2. The only option Henson has, and I agree is to get ANGRY with them or just sit on it until Weinstine loses the rights. Frankly, I just want them to completely go under already and have Henson move the project to Lionsgate.

 

[frogboy4]

Yes, but no matter what happened, Henson ALWAYS needs a partner to do these films. They're not financially solvent enough to do everything themselves, and if they were, they would have DONE this movie by now. Remember, Good Boy and Buddy were under Sony's partnership. Henson desperately wants this movie... after all, Fraggles is the only strong, solid, family and kid friendly Henson brand NOT controlled by Disney or SW. They want to launch it as their signature brand. Look at the merchandising push it got recently... they have off brand Snuggies.



Not only are you right, but the sad part is, if Weinstine worked on it 2 years ago, they would have lost funding halfway through, and even if it was finished, they'd sit their fat sullen butts on it like they're doing with Hoodwinked 2. The only option Henson has, and I agree is to get ANGRY with them or just sit on it until Weinstine loses the rights. Frankly, I just want them to completely go under already and have Henson move the project to Lionsgate.

I get the need for partnering, but Henson should be able to strengthen their brands enough to make more companies woo them. I still don't get why things are the way they are with their branding and promotion. Why does Manhattan Toys make the weird-looking and expensive Fraggle plush rather than any number of other competitors? That's a good example. They should have Fraggle merchandising out the yin-yang by now...and at affordable prices. To me, the film development before and since Weinstein falls in this same weird little crevice.

 

[Mupp]

The only option Henson has, and I agree is to get ANGRY with them or just sit on it until Weinstine loses the rights. Frankly, I just want them to completely go under already and have Henson move the project to Lionsgate.

Sounds good to me.

Also, kind of pathetic about Hoodwinked 2.

 

[Drtooth]

I still don't get why things are the way they are with their branding and promotion. Why does Manhattan Toys make the weird-looking and expensive Fraggle plush rather than any number of other competitors? That's a good example. They should have Fraggle merchandising out the yin-yang by now...and at affordable prices. To me, the film development before and since Weinstein falls in this same weird little crevice.

Catch 22. They won't make the movie until it's popular enough and that falls on merchandising... and bigger companies won't want to merchandise them until there's a movie. The general retail stuff isn't the greatest in the world, I have to admit. I like the wall clock and the uh... Shooter glasses... but no way am I wearing a snuggie (even if Bullwinkle, Kinnikuman and Inspector Gadget were on it), the beanies are for girls, and the plush... well, I like SOME of the plush, but you can only buy them in upscale local toy shops that sell only educational toys rich snobby parents buy their kids. No matter how you look at it, though... it IS a start. OH. The comics too. I forgot those.

I'm sure if the movie WOULD get made and IF it ever comes out, we'd see a more accessible toy company do more affordable general retail plush and figures of some sort. And if they ever BOTHER getting the Doozers series off the ground (please tell me they're NOT waiting for any signs of the movie to get that out or we'll never see that either) that would help be a nice push. But so far, just some odd nostalgia based merchandise, the DVD sets that have been out forever (and I never got )and reruns on an obscure channel... there's not that much of a push. Though, I guess that's the best they can do. I really want them to go stronger with this stuff. I'd hate to see Henson's anchor license to be Dinosaur Train. It's not even Waldo CGI.