Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie

[murgatoad]

If the Muppets want to get "adult" and "edgy", then the best way to do that is NOT to have puppets drool over human body parts. That's lame and never, ever works ("Greg the Bunny", anyone?) All that does is confuse/disgust kids and make grownups uncomfortable. The best thing the Muppets have in that regard is the Kermit/Piggy relationship. There's a sexual undercurrent in that, and yet it retains an innocence that no parent could reasonably object to. And when it's well done (something that's all too rare), it's funny as ****. I remember a Kermit/Piggy interview done years ago with Joan Lunden prior to the premiere of "Muppet Family Christmas". During it Piggy told Joan that Kermit acts reticent about their relationship in public because he's shy. But ( in Piggy's words) "in private - watch out!" Kermit put in boastfully "Yeah, that's what I was gonna say - watch out!" Piggy continued, " We're talking - three days! We're talking - room service!" Joan nearly fell off her chair laughing. The whole "Good Morning America" crew cracked up. My mother, who has little use for puppets, laughed so hard she choked. A fine Muppet moment.

Sadly, also one of the last...

 

[Joggy]

A few replies:

Scarecroe said: "Joggy, the Muppets have always used implied sex humor."

Your first statement is true; however, there is a bit of a difference between Piggy trying to court a male guest star on the old Muppet Show and Muppets commenting openly on boobs or suggesting pornographic actions like cage dancing. I'm not mentioning the late night guest appearances like Kermit talking to Jaye Leno about as he called it "touchy, uhm, difficult subjects" because kids normally do not watch these. Those are meant for adult viewers.

A Christmas movie like this is usually for the whole family. Someone suggested parents to watch it before showing it to their children - isn't it sad that a great tradition has to have warnings beforehand?

Scarecroe also said: "The only reason why it's done so blatantly these days is because people have sadly become even more stupid and likely won't get the smarter implied sex jokes."

Too true. Anyone seen the episode of Dinosaurs "Network Genius"? Earl Sinclair was in charge of the TV programming and all the shows he put on literally dumbed down the entire society in one night. It was a funny and satiristic comedy episode; however they were trying to make a point into the real world. TV, as many other media, is dumbening people down, and I think that is serious business. Therefore it is so important that TV can also show good quality things. Jim Henson tried to make a difference with these characters; he even wanted to create a series that would bring peace to the world (Fraggle Rock). Now they're just the same old dirty amusement you see on Jerry Springer.

Cory said: " Ack...dont make the mistake I did about KSY! I heard so much bad buzz about KSY I lamblasted it before I even saw it, and boy was I wrong."

That's a different situation from mine because you thought KSY would be plainly a bad and boring movie to watch. To me this is a matter of right and wrong.

Luke said: " Henson cannot and will not stay afloat if they continue to cater to kids - and the people who own them will not let this happen."

You're talking about finances here, and this is what it's come down to. Henson is just a company. They used to have many child viewers they treated wonderfully, now they're just dropping them, unprepared, in order to get more money. Isn't that heartless? What would I do in their place? Like you said, go on with Hoobs and Bear, and stop with the Classic Muppets, or either keep going the same direction. Let Kermit be an old celebrity who appears on a show every once in a while and create a NEW bunch of characters who get away with everything.

Finally - Kermit having suicidal thoughts? Geez. No matter how many dead characters like Scooter and Janice have made a comeback, I do not want to see this movie. I realise I might love it, but I think I won't be able to watch it without seeing pictures of traumatized kids in my head.

 

[Janice & Mokey's Man]

Bring back Joggyyyyyyy!

 

[sidcrowe]

C'irdan------Rizzo

C'irdan: I'm not going to defend myself typing away at this board explaining how I'm NOT a bigoted misogynist; I'm too busy with other stuff right now.

I produce my own 8-page magazine every month and I take my writing seriously. To some, they just type whatever is on their minds as opposed to speaking it with their mouth. Me--I think about every word I choose. I write every day, and I'm working on stuff for my own puppet characters that I'm trying to get on the internet. Thus, I always imagine precisely what I would do if I were at the meetings with the writers of these Muppet projects.

I would shy away from any specific depiction of God. Oh, why? Because I'm like Jim Henson in that way. Remember the episode of the Muppet Show that had Harry Belafonté as a guest? The one with the singing African masks? Henson went to the extra trouble to make certain that the masks didn't accidentally look like any masks used in any group's religion, so as not to offend anyone.

I would have had talking stars representing the angels, and a deep voice representing God.

If I were writing an American Christmas television special, I would not have anyone playing God, white or otherwise, but if I were forced to, I wouldn't choose a woman. A WOMAN. It's always "Him" and "His" word, and "He" did this or that.

They chose a black woman to shake things up a little more, and I say that because personally, I found the character of God to be capricious. I mean, she gave more of a dammm about watching Spongebob than she did about Kermit's misery! THAT'S DISGUSTING! You have to be an intellectual to be able to read things like that.

The character was flying on Whoopi's celebrity reputation as a smartasss: it was a sloppy way to write for "God."

Further, I am well aware of the long tradition of religious tyranny meted out by white Europeans. I never said I agreed with it-I don't. I was trying (in vain, it seems) to criticize the writing within the context of our Western religious culture.

Look, the bottom line here is that you're 14 years old, and you don't understand what I'm trying to say, and you don't know what you're talking about.

If you want to continue to insult me, go ahead---out of respect for the moderator of this forum, I'm not arguing about this with you any further. This is my last word and I mean it.

Go on, have fun having the last word...it's all yours

Rizzo: "Who says God is a man OR a woman? God is God. Case closed."

I NEVER SAID that God was a man. I said that he was DEPICTED as a man, and not to blame me for over 2000 years of those depictions. I didn't say that I didn't respect other interpretations of a supreme being, but the special was about CHRISTmas, and in the Christian Bible, God is referred to as "HIM."

NOW........the case is really closed.

 

[punkNpuppets]

Originally posted by scarecroe
I think Piggy's hot.

now that's just wrong

 

[DramaQueen86]

To Sidcrowe:

quote
"I NEVER SAID that God was a man."

If you think about it, God made man in his image, then made woman. If God made Adom in his image, then wouldn't that make God atleast look like a man?

 

[trekkie1701E]

<<Hey, I just noticed your signature. Are YOU the writer of the "Save the Vault" petition?>>

I'm the founder of the DC petition on petitionpetition.com

Go to the campaign page on Yahoo Groups; you'll all find a link there.

 

[murgatoad]

Originally posted by punkNpuppets
now that's just wrong

Ahhh, somebody else who "just doesn't get it"

 

[Misfit Toy]

Well, I go to church and in the Bible it's never said anything other than "Him" "His" "He" "Father" etc. etc. So the Bible really made it clear that God's a male. Well, that is the God of the Bible and that's a different case if you even believe the Bible or not...despite the fact it's completely consistent and records actual information of ancient times in Isreal, that you can find outside of the Bible.

And Jesus wasn't some perfect white guy...he was a Jewish person, and in WWII Jewish people were killed as we know because they weren't an "Aryan" or "pure" race...they were a dark minority and FAR from those paintings in the Catholic church where He's depicted as a white dude with a beard- that's just the painter's fault or the early European's ideas of supremacy, which is disgusting.

In my opinion, I don't think there should have been a "God' in the movie, because I think that it's innappropriate for little foam puppets to be concerning themselves with that. I don't mind Whoopie Goldberg at all, and I'm NOT racist in the least (I can't stand racism at all...people around me growing up were very racist and I couldn't stand it!). Maybe the whole thing should have never happened...it created more suspision/strife than what it set out to do.

All in all, I think it was a poorly made film using our beloved characters as a cheap ride to good ratings. Even if it put the Muppets back in the spotlight...they're Muppets that I really *didn't like*.

 

[sidcrowe]

Thanks, Misfit Toy

Anyhoo, to change the subject for a bit (at least I'll try), did you all like that mention from Kermit about "Muppet internet fan sites?"

Y'all KNOW that was for us