"The Muppets' Wizard of Oz" disappoints - Jim Hill

pepestarr

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Marky said:
Whoever does Scooter now is pretty good, too.
Ricky Boyd did Scooter in MWOO. I think Eric was great with all of Frank's old characters and Pepe was funny but I agree about the 'sexy' joke abit over used.

I didn't really like Ashanti. I think if they could get Paul Williams to write the music and produce actual movies for cinemas again then that would be better

I couldn't pick between the last two TV Films as I've never seen Kermits Swamp Years and I probably don't want to now. LOL.
 

Vic Romano

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Muppet Pro said:
MWoO is on the guide lines of the Muppet film trilogy.
How the heck are they on the same guide lines? Not picking a fight, just asking. :smile:
 

Marky

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I don't own Tresure Island (haven't even seen it)... I've seen and like Oz.

I you were to go out and buy only one of them which would it be? (I'm tryin' to get some Muppet fan opinions on Tresure Island!)
 

Sgt Floyd

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I sorta liked oz, but it was just lacking something...and I dont know what. Actually, I've only seen Oz, Chirstmas Carol, and treasure island...sad isnt it?
 

dwayne1115

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oz was missing one thing and that was Oz!!!! i know yall get what im saying
 

Marky

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Muppet Pro said:
Tresure Island is one of the best Muppet films that was ever made after Jim's passing. In my opition, I say, go for that if your getting one for now. But you know, some other fans might have different yet stronger opitions about Oz. :smile:
Thanks! Finally someone gives me an answer on this!
 

Ruahnna

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I'm going to wade right in here. IMHO, MWoO failed with the audience it was intending to reach because the characters were simply not likable. Whoa--before I get tarred and feathered (that's Gonzo's job)--I don't mean that the Muppets themselves weren't sympathetic, but that the characters that they portrayed failed to find sympathy and empathy with the audience.
If we accept the premise that Ashanti, Kermit, Fozzie, et al are actors portraying roles in a scripted movie, here's the promblem: Ashanti's character is a whiny brat. Her character fails to take responsibility for her own actions (whose fault was it she showed up late to audition?) and does not appreciate the sacrifices that people in her life have made for her. I don't know the singer at all--she's probably very nice, but the script portrays her as full of herself, ungrateful, hateful and whiny. Not really her fault if she compares poorly to cute, fluffy little Judy Garland with her little girl mannerisms and her big booming voice. See--heroines are supposed to be long-suffering--think Snow White and Cinderella--and they are supposed to bring comfort and cheer to those they encounter, even--especially--in the face of adversity. They are life-embracers, which this Dorothy character was not.
Despite my adoration of Kermit, his scarecrow was too passive to be interesting. We've all waited dozens of time with baited breath for that moment when Fozzie, or Piggy or Gonzo will manage to push the right combination of Kermit's buttons and he errupts into arm-waving hysteris, thereby restoring order to the universe. No angst, no order. Kermit's scarecrow would have been funnier if he had actually been very clever--only people kept assuming he was stupid because he was a scarecrow. THis would have played very well into Kermit's schtick as "the only sane one backstage," and he could have muttered about "Actually I'm not really stupid, they just...oh, never mind," and "When they told me I've have a huge audience, this wasn't what I expected" and "This is the last time I work with crows," etc.
Gonzo was, well, weirder than usual, but he who has always been so full of soul is not easily cast as someone with no heart. I could have rooted for him more if--by proving himself capable of a great romantic quest--he could have proven to Camilla that he could be her romantic hero. Having him forced into the role of heartless sortof robs it of its pathos. What is more sympathetic than the man who wants to love but is afraid of love? But I have to say that I thought the most touching moment in the whole movie was when Gonzo--who knows more than any of us about the courage it takes to believe in yourself when no one else does--reaches out and gently leads Fozzie across the bridge. That's the Gonzo I know and love.
Fozzie made a great cowardly lion, and proved the most centered and secure in his role. (Talk about role revearsal!) My only real gripe with the use of Fozzie came from thinking that they missed an opportunity here--The Wizard of Foz. Wouldn't Fozzie's Mom have made a great WoFoz? It would have brought Fozzie's need for acceptance and love right back to the forefront, making him our familiar, lovable, insecure bear.
Piggy, Piggy--what did they do with you? Very little, for all the roles they thrust you into. The only moment I actually recognized Piggy was when she goosed Kermit in the bum as Dorothy's leaving Oz. (You go girl!) What a missed opportunity to not have everyone telling Piggy how she must love "getting back to the county" while she insists she has always be a sophisticated city pig. (Shade of Eliza Doolittle--"What's th' 'arm in me leaving Covent Garden? It we'ren't fit for a pig to live in and I had to pay...)
And can I say,with great sadness, that when Johnny Fiama turns in the most emotionally believable performance in the whole cast, we got a first-class credibility problem on our hand.
Pepe was the most true to himself--he kept all of his Pepe sass while playing an uncharted role. He made the most out of what he was given to work with.
My biggest gripe about movies today in general is that there is no snappy dialogue, no intelligent progression or plot, no character integrity that supersedes going for a cheap laugh or a glimpse of thigh. The Muppets are best when they go back to the Old Hollywood/Vaudeville roots that used to be assumed. We expect the Muppets to sing, to dance, to do comedy and drama and their own stunts. Name me five actors--no, three--who can do all of that today! We have to WANT the dream for them, want their starry-eyed illusions to be fulfilled, not stripped away and ridiculed. Kermit never told Fozzie that his jokes were funny if they weren't. I think it's okay if we show the same attitude that Kermit had--come on, guy--entertain us--I dare you.
(Ma'am--if you could just step down of that soapbox before someone gets hurt....)
 

ReneeLouvier

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Oh...my...god....

It is exactly what has happened to them. Yes, yes yes, a thousand times yes.

-THAT- hit it right on the nail there.
 

Marky

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ReneeLouvier said:
Oh...my...god....

It is exactly what has happened to them. Yes, yes yes, a thousand times yes.

-THAT- hit it right on the nail there.
All of that applies to what was wrong w/ Oz. I thought right away though - some disposable R&B singer? pfft! That was already 'done' in 1978 with 'The Whiz'

How 'bout an a-c-t-o-r playing Dorothy? They could have broken the 4th wall just a teeny bit more. Although I think it was a good decision not to try to get this on the big screen. Not bad for a simple TV movie, though. I'll take more of that than nothing (although a bigger-bugeted star-packed PG-rated laugh-fest would REALLY kick -start them again IMO). Use Touchstone, silly Disney-heads!!!
 

Ruahnna

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Running gags

Sgt Floyd said:
I sorta liked oz, but it was just lacking something...and I dont know what. QUOTE]

I've been thinking about this a bit (yes, I probably should get out more) and I think some of what is missing in this movie is the absolute goofiness that used to be so much a part of the humor of the muppets. Good humor appeals to more than one level, and some of the best laughs the muppets ever got on TMS were actually groans. I think Jim was the one who said, "If a joke is bad enough for us to use once, it's bad enough for us to use several times!" (i.e. Q: Do you like Kipling? A: I don't know, I never kippled!) I've thought of a few things that would have been comfortingly familiar--and groan-inducing--in TMWoO.

1. Running gag number one--various muppets keep showing up to audition for The Wizard of: Fuzz, Ox, Fluff, Ostritches, etc. These would also provide and opportunity for Kermit to erupt into arm-waving hysteria--always a favorite of mine--shouting "Can't you people read? It the wizard of OZ! OZ!" (To which a lisping woman could reply "Yez?)

2. If you insist on making Kermit more "hip," give him a cell phone that rings at inappropriate times.* (Isn't that what all the wannabe hip people sport nowadays?) "No, Miss Piggy--you can't have a second trailor just because....," "No, I'm not interested in the market price of alfalfa today? What? Oh, no. I'm not interested in the price of pork either--that's way out of my league. Trust me." "No, I do not want to subscribe...," "Piggy, I'm sortof in the middle of--what? Oh, well, maybe but--what? Really? Well that sounds interesting but--" (suddenly realizing everyone is listening to his half of the conversation.) "Piggy! I'm trying to work!"
*This could have worked equally well with Gonzo, who actually HAD a cell phone that wasn't utilized for comic effect.

3. If Piggy's going to play more than one part, have her gripe continuous about the costume changes. She could even show up in her Glenda the Good Witch costume with the wrong tights and shoes, deny she did it, pretend she meant to do it and then finally give in when Kermit has a conniption. (No, I don't know how to spell that--it's unaccountable not in the dictionary.)

4. How about a group of Muffins arriving to audition for the show. "Sorry guys, it's Munchkins." Looks at the flyer in his hands. "We got to get a better proofreader."

Okay, okay--so these are sort of lame, but aren't they all just a little bit familiar? Why? Because we've seen them do this sort of thing over and over again--and over and over after that.

Anybody got any others?
 
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