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The Muppets SPOILER Thread

Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by Muppy, Sep 9, 2015.

  1. LouisTheOtter

    LouisTheOtter Well-Known Member

    ABC's lack of advertising for this show is really bothering me at this point. They had ample opportunity during the Disneyland 60 special (especially since it featured Kermit singing, for frog's sake!). Nothing. I counted five or six promos for The Real O'Neals, but nothing for The Muppets.

    Even during last night's Fresh Off The Boat, the only promo we saw was a three-second ad at the 27-minute mark that teased Lara Spencer's appearance. That's it. And we really should have had at least one commercial during the hour (or at least during the half-hour The Muppets was airing) that teed up next week's one-hour season finale. Nothing.

    I hate jumping to conclusions but it almost looks like ABC is embarrassed with the low February ratings and is trying to make people forget about the show so they won't feel guilty about cancelling it. Which is horrific, considering that "Little Green Lie" was, from where I'm sitting, one of the best episodes of the entire series and made me laugh more than 80 per cent of the shows I've watched on any network in the last six months.
  2. GonzoLover726

    GonzoLover726 Active Member

    It would be an absolute miracle if the show got renewed for another chance to shine with the new format at this point. :concern:

    I get why people turned away at first cause there's no denying that the first few episodes were really bad but by the 5th or 6th is started to get good and so far I love all of the episodes since the reboot (except last weeks) i just wish people gave it another chance this month.

    Also I personally think the entire show should've been like last nights episode. With the majority of the time going to the muppets being their muppet selves inside and outside of work with a few minutes going to a skit or guest on "Up Late."

    Nevertheless it was nice watching a Muppet show as it aired at least once in my life it's a shame it never got much love and attention. I feel bad for the Muppeteers and everyone working on the show. They tried at least. :concern::o:sympathy:
  3. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    At this point, I really hope "The Real O'Neils" flops worse. I want to give it a chance, but every extended preview just makes Boardertown look subdued and subtle by comparison. We GET it! They're hypocritical religious types. Doesn't seem like any traction there.

    ABC's massive mistake was moving the time slot to avoid something that somehow keeps getting viewers and renewals. "Fresh off the Boat" provides a lame lead in (and it shouldn't) and "Agent Carter" doesn't even provide a nice watch this while waiting slot. There was a tiny, but respectable audience tuning in until the changes. Maybe if they didn't essentially broadcast them everywhere, it wouldn't have looked desperate. This show deserves another season if anything to show that they are capable of making the show much better when they have a few more months off. But it won't, and Real O'Neils will probably last a couple weeks at best.
    Muppet Master likes this.
  4. Pig's Laundry

    Pig's Laundry Well-Known Member

    The ratings for this episode were not amazing but they have gone up a bit since last week's episode.

    Last week's episode had pretty much the same ratings as the week before. So perhaps this is a good sign. The viewership has stayed consistent and has even gone up without any advertisement whatsoever. So perhaps this at least show's ABC that The Muppets has a dedicated fanbase and they'll keep it on air for a while.
  5. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I just had a worrisome realization. Not so much about the ratings, but considering next Tuesday is Super Tuesday, I'm confident that most of the affiliates will pre-empt the night for election coverage. I really wish they'd move this up a week, as well as the finale of Agent Carter.
  6. LouisTheOtter

    LouisTheOtter Well-Known Member

    Unless I read it wrong, it looks like the main networks (including ABC) aren't going to begin their Super Tuesday coverage until 10 ET, so that would at least allow the Eastern and Central time zones to see The Muppets and Agent Carter. It will probably vary from state to state but I think we've got a decent shot at a good audience for the season finale(s) next week.

    I really wish ABC would get off its butt and properly advertise these finales. During last night's comedy block I'm sure I saw five promos for The Real O'Neals (which ABC is debuting next Wednesday, with the first two episodes slotted around The Goldbergs and Modern Family, before shifting to The Muppets' current Tuesday time slot). Absolutely nothing for The Muppets, even though it's a one-hour season finale and the networks usually promote these types of things to the high heavens. Grrr...
  7. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    That's because they want to make the most out of a new program. I'm disheartened by the fact they aren't advertising the Muppets finale. Agent Carter got one at the end of Agent Carter, but only because it aired during the end credits. The time The Muppets uses for a stinger.

    That said, I complained a couple weeks back when my local (not New Hampshire) ABC affiliate blocked an entire night's programming for coverage of a primary that isn't ours. And New Hampshire has its own ABC affiliate (and our cable provider gives us both) and it, too, was a full night of coverage. I'm worried this might take a bite out of the show even further if local news affiliates decide to black out national programming as well.

    That said, I wonder... Real O'Neals was supposed to premiere in The Muppets' time slot. But they're seemingly pushing it up and burning off two episodes. Seems to say that they're not as confident of the show as possible. And frankly, I'm more annoyed by the "The Family" promotions. Never has there been such a collection of Narm. Why, the big reveal in the commercial of the kid coming back is (and I kid you not) accompanied by a television screen playing Curious George. Way to ruin the dramatic sting with a happy monkey.
  8. Muppetboy09

    Muppetboy09 Well-Known Member

    So the finale will bring back Mahna Mahna as well as Marvin Suggs and his Muppaphones. Also, I can't help but notice Gonzo's canon in the background, along with a Chandelier on the other side...the return of "At the Dance"? Haha. Seems like a killer episode.
    Duke Remington and scooterfan360 like this.
  9. Muppet Master

    Muppet Master Well-Known Member

    I miss the days when I would see showers of muppet promos, such a good time, even up to Single All the Way, constant advertising, but after these low ratings there's not much hope, they're not even bothering to advertise the season finale, that's even worse, but I guess ABC has to make room for their endless rampage of generic family sitcoms that are basically the same show, and actually good shows like this and Galavant get cancelled.
  10. Muppet Master

    Muppet Master Well-Known Member


    Looks like Vetrinarian's Hospital is back.
    Muppy and charlietheowl like this.
  11. MuppetsRule

    MuppetsRule Well-Known Member

    Ironic that the season finale and perhaps the show's finale we finally get to see Rowlf for more than 5 seconds.
    Muppet Master likes this.
  12. Mo Frackle

    Mo Frackle Well-Known Member

    Fitting, since the episode will be taking place in a hospital. Definitely excited to see what the writers pull out of their hats for this!
    Muppy and Duke Remington like this.
  13. JimAndFrank

    JimAndFrank Well-Known Member

    This is how I see things:

    If the show gets renewed for a second season, then fantastic! If it gets cancelled, it wasn't due to lack of trying. Everyone: the performers, the writers, the producers, the directors and all of us as the fans put our hearts and souls into making this work.

    There is no one thing to blame for things going downhill. The marketing was initially pushing it slightly to far with the adult content, which of course created a chain reaction with parental organizations going nuts. The general media didn't appreciate it either. We as the Muppet fandom tried to dispell these concerns, but we are a very small community. We can scream all we want, but it's still like keeping the tide back with a broom.

    In hindsight, maybe the mockumentry style could have gone in a different direction. I don't think Piggy should have been the only Muppet on television from the beginning. There could have simply been the Muppets version of Saturday Night Live. We could've had sketches and songs from the get go. And as for the behind-the-scenes stuff, perhaps it could have been better to watch Kermit trying to keep his troops together as a family rather than just as coworkers.

    If I had've been tasked with creating the basis for this show, that would have been exactly what I would come up with. It would be reminiscent of TMS, but actually going home with the characters and venturing out into the world. We could go with Kermit to his home swap in Mississippi. We could watch Floyd try to control Animal in a fine china shop. We could actually watch Janice and her friends build that wicker man.

    The show has been so focused on relationships and being adult, that it forgot how to be Muppety in a few instances. That started to change with Newman coming in, but now it may be too little too late. For the Muppets to let loose, they had to have a few drinks first. Look at 'Pig Out' or the party at the bachelor pad.

    It's like the Muppets can't find the pleasure in mayhem and chaos in this 'real world'. That's what the general public was expecting (aside from the ridiculous notion that Muppets were for the kiddies) and I can't say I blame them.

    Just remember that if this all turns to crap, The Muppets have survived Jim's death, MFS, KSY, VMX, MWoO, DC Almost Live and countless other disasters.

    We're gonna be okay folks. We're gonna be just fine!
    Muppet Master and Muppy like this.
  14. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I think the problem is one of the scale of Muppet fans who actually watched everything versus casual fans that tune in for one or two projects every so often is the reason this doesn't have the audience it deserves. Face it. As fans who followed every DTV movie, every 5 minute appearance on talk shows, and every cameo in some awful project (Remember the Jessica Simpsons Variety Special?), some of us are far more excited by a shake up or change of the characters' venue than those who haven't watched anything significant since the first comeback movie or earlier. There are those of us who liked that this was supposed to be post 2000 era sitcomy, and felt it was a fresh change.

    While I don't doubt they should have done crazier stuff and that could have totally fit in the format they had, the writers tried something new and spent several episodes trying to get the formula to work with the characters, only to have to redo everything to try and fit what could have fit there in the first place. I'll get that it would have had slightly better ratings if they had more chickens and penguins running around. But the key word is slightly. Even if the show was a perfect remake of the Muppet Show that didn't come off as a retread, I'm sure the ratings would have sucked also. I've been saying this for years, The Muppets can't exist in today's TV markets. On the one hand, anything they were going to go up against was going to hurt them. Unless it was Friday, which unless you're that incredibly terrible Last Man Standing, is a death sentence for sitcoms (especially if you follow it). And frankly, the Muppets never did well in prime time broadcast network slots. NBC pretty much pretended JHH didn't exist (though the unwieldy hour long always switching format had trouble drawing that audience in), and Muppets Tonight wasn't pulling in Boy Meets World numbers, so they threw around the time slot, produced a second season, and dumped it on Disney when they still had diverse programming.

    The show deserves a second season on the merits of giving them a second chance, but that's clearly not going to be in the cards barring some miracle on ABC's part. Not saying the first season of The Muppet Show sucked, but they had some weak concepts and characters that didn't click. Heck, Miss Piggy didn't even have a solid performer (let alone a good looking puppet). Beaker didn't come in until season 2, and we all know about the value of that character. And I think we can all agree, at least it didn't turn out like the Cutesy Poo Poo Valentines Show pilot (though a Muppet show like Sex and Violence would have been awesome). If this show got a second season where everything is perfected and more Muppety, we can write season one off as struggling to find that common ground between a format that works on modern television and Muppet brand mayhem. Writing this stuff isn't easy, yet some of its competition seems to be. I'm not going to be upset if it doesn't. It simply wasn't meant to be.

    Then again, I have to add, if wacky off the wall classic Muppety stuff is what the public wanted, why did they avoid MMW? The movie going audience couldn't all have been taken in by another crappily produced Tween Dystopia franchise written by someone that peaked at a Cliff Notes of "The Fountain head" once. I'm guessing the original title of "The Muppets...Again" was shockingly accurate, but that's a long rant I'm not going into. I have a feeling that no matter what, the Muppet supposedly loving audience would've bailed a few episodes in anyway because they still wouldn't get that warm fuzzy "watching an old tape of TMM at Grandma's house" nostalgia they wanted. Sure, they probably want a T-Shirt or a Christmas ornament, and probably bought one of the comics once.

    Of course, it's embarrassing that Grandfathered was a bigger flop, but I bet Fox will renew that. Probably got a ratings boost from New Girl.
    Muppet Master and Muppy like this.
  15. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    I've seen some people say that ABC doesn't want to pay to advertise the show if it looks like it'll be canceled, but do channels have to pay to advertise their own shows on their channels? Not sure if they'd have to pay residuals/royalties to anything that appears in the clips, but I would think they wouldn't have to pay (themselves?) for advertising on their own channels.

    Though the time spent advertising their own programming is time that could have been spent advertising the sponsors.
  16. jobi71

    jobi71 Well-Known Member

    I think your second point might be more the case. If they can use the commercial time to make some profit that's more appealing then promoting a show that has pretty much levelled off on its ratings. An ad may not bring in more viewers. I do know Jack White (guest star in the last episode) has posted on his Facebook promoting the show and his appearance and I have seen on social media people excited about Willie Nelson's appearance and the return of Vets Hospital. ABC may see this very targeted marketing to be a better option.
  17. BlakeConor14

    BlakeConor14 Well-Known Member

    In that photograph I see manah manah
  18. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    There's something I've been wondering (that we'll know within a few days): Will the last two episodes air back-to-back as separate episodes (meaning they both have the opening title and end credits), or will it air as a full hour (with the opening and end credits only appearing once), only to be split into two half-hours for later broadcasts?
  19. jobi71

    jobi71 Well-Known Member

    Very good question. I am guessing they were conceived as two separate episodes. (Maybe not) But I am also curious how we go from episode 15 to episode 16.
  20. Muppet Master

    Muppet Master Well-Known Member

    The one thing that I don't like is how much dialouge they throw at us that we never get to see them, for example Bobo's army buddies or maybe even flashbacks of him in the army a la Brooklyn Nine-Nine or the wicker man you mentioned, but I still love the show, and no matter how good it was going to be there would still be tons of complaints about Kermit's voice or no Big Bird or random garbage like that. Also, they should not have marketed it as adult that basically made it lose any chance it had at being popular, they didn't advertise MT as an adult show, and that had just as much adult content, the whole balloons joke in the Cindy Crawford episode is probably more adult than most of what's been on the show. I've read a comment somewhere that the muppets are basically prisoners of their own fandom as whatever they do will be shunned by the old school fans because it wasn't exactly what they saw in 1978 and complan about how after Jim's death nothing the muppets have done have been good, the other fans want them to do new things, but are too few to make much of a group. Just think the 9 million viewers for the premiere was mostly causal fans or hey I watched Big Bird and Miss Piggy when I was a kid, I can't wait to be nostalgic again. The 2 million viewers who watch the show now are the actual fnas, but ya sadly there's too few of us to make a difference in the ratings.

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