The Muppets Kitchen with Cat Cora

[Mupp]

.. as main characters though?

Well, there's the Swedish Chef for one.

..Oh! And Dr. Honeydew;

Very simple design with him.

 

[frogboy4]

Well, there's the Swedish Chef for one.

..Oh! And Dr. Honeydew;

Very simple design with him.

I see the best Muppets as having an elegant simplicity to the design and it appears they intended that for this one too. Even though I see what you're saying about Angelo, it still looks like they got it all wrong like things were lost in the translation. The colors are washed out and don't particularly compliment each other. Even the eyebrows are tiny on his doughy, jaundiced noggin. The whole thing seems a little haphazard.

To be honest, many season one Muppet Show cast members look weird and they had the time to widdle down the designs over a few years, but the Muppets don't have that luxury today and all eyes are naturally going to be on the new chef in comparison to our beloved Swede and the other brighter, better characters along side him. Introducing such a character requires the Muppets to step up their game in all areas of character design and production.

There are some Muppets that just click right out of the gate no matter what the design like Johnny, Sal, Pepe, Bobo, Carl etc. Then there are the Mr. Poodlepants and Bill the Bubble Guy who both should call us back to characters like Marvin Suggs and Lew Zeland, but for some reason fall short of the mark. It's something that can't be predicted. All the ingredients are there, but something's not done baking yet. That's how I feel about Angelo. However, the entertainment world moves much faster these days and most people will have moved on by the time the interloping chef is "ready".

I still feel that the lesson of Clifford has been ignored, and he was a good character with a stellar performer and a gorgeous design, but people didn’t take to him like they should have because he appeared to fill the space of Kermit and other beloved ensemble backstage characters like Scooter and Fozzie Bear. We have a good idea of why Clifford was asked to step-up, yet in the end it’s about the finished product and what the audience’s peepers want to see.

Most people expect to see Kermit hosting Muppet television programs and the Swedish Chef to host Muppet cooking bits. A lot of fans take it personally when they feel these icons have been bumped aside and that puts a lot more heat on the new hosts. I’m not a fan of Angelo, but I don’t fault the character or magnificent puppeteer. I personally feel that it was a weird decision that wasn’t executed well.

Hey, 99% of the Muppets are fantastic and it’s difficult for me to pick just one to be wild about. I love new Muppets too and hope they throw some more at us soon as long as Scooter, the Swedish Chef, Rowlf, the Electric Mayhem and all of my lifelong fuzzy friends are there to greet them and seniority is acknowledged.

 

[Drtooth]

What it comes down for me is I like Angelo because he's played by Tyler. I mean, look at the character he played in BTL, Dr. Nitwhite... a character who thinks he's brilliant and celebrates things prematurely and goes absolutely apescat when he's proven wrong, one time actually chasing his assistant with violent intentions. THAT is an exuberant character. Tyler has a way with making his characters crazy on some level (even when he's just the voice on Abby segments). I really want to see that come out of Angelo... the sandwich one was a start... you can tell he wants to have more fun with the character than they'll allow. The character needs MORE improv (you can actually tell when he does... that's when he's funny), and he needs more chances to let loose and go nuts. This may happen, but gradually.

As for the design, I think whoever said they just photo-shopped the Chef to look different because they changed direction was spot on. The character design really does seem primitive, almost out of Sesame Street style (He'd fit perfectly there... I almost wish he WAS a SS character). I actually don't hate it, but it seems like they should have made the puppet FIRST then photoshopped the stills.

 

[dwmckim]

Since this is a busy thread, i'll just throw out random thoughts as opposed to replying to other comments.

- Yeah, the real hands obviously draw very direct comparisons to Swedish Chef (as if there weren't a myriad of other reasons to compare them) but really it's such a given choice since he's constantly handling real food (not just prop food or "fake food" that's often used in menu photographs - cooking shows are different - even Muppet ones).

- I don't think people are giving Disney/Muppet Studios enough credit for not thinking/knowing how Angelo may be received by Muppet fans. The current team very much "gets" the Muppets, they generally know exactly what they're doing...i'm sure they thought about all of what would go into how "the new guy" would be welcomed. A lot of the evidence is actually right there in the episodes - in the first block of webisodes, Swedish Chef is there to remind people no he's not gone or forgotten and Angelo establishes his relationship to him. In the second block, Beau asks Angelo "didn't you used to be Swedish?" Great joke in itself but the writers also totally did that because they knew a lot of the audience were thinking/feeling that way too. I'll bet in each block of episodes there'll be at least one appearance or reference to Swedish Chef.

- I initially didn't like how the first episode was the birthday episode where our introduction to Angelo had him in drag and really confused everyone as to who he was. I now think that was an unintended fluke - since they're loading the new episodes "top to bottom", i think that was actually SUPPOSED to be "episode 4" but no one stopped to think about how it would end up being everyone's first view of the show.

- I think because there's been such a push by Disney to reestablish the classic characters within the Classic Muppets, it's begun to spoil people in terms of their expectations of who they should see where. Throughout their 50+ years, new characters have always been introduced - heck, even though there were a few "familiar faces", the group now known as the Classic Muppets were themselves a large group of newbies. If the internet was around in 1976, i'm sure the universal reaction on fanboards would have been "how can they call this The Muppet Show? Where are all the Muppets i know and love like Cookie Monster and Oscar?" We all know about the big group of newbies that came from Muppets Tonight but what about the Jim Henson Hour? The JHH characters seem to be huge (and dearly missed) favorite characters by a lot of people here but the ratio of new characters to "old familiar ones" on JHH was initially more jarring when JHH debuted than when MT did.

- Likewise, i'm not quite placing my bets in the same camp that everyone else is when people are constantly saying "oh well, like him or hate him, this is the only place you'll see Angelo anyway" I'm not so sure...i don't think he'll be a MAJOR character anywhere else but i betcha he'll make various cameos here and there in future projects even if it's a non-speaking role. But i'll be willing to bet somewhere down the line in the next five to ten years whether it be in a movie, tv show or other medium there'll be a scene with Angelo and The Swedish Chef working together and having to deal with some kind of catastrophe (he may for example end up being "the new Gladys" - something along those lines)

- Before this show debuted, one of the Swedish Chef's biggest fan complaints (besides that awful poser "kissing fingers" photo always appearing EVERYWHERE) has been that he's getting "too good" with his English - sometimes speaking whole sentences in English; though still heavily accented. How much you wanna bet that would be the major thing we'd all be dissecting if he was hosting this show?

- Again, going back to my earlier speculation that each block of episodes will include either an appearance of or reference to The Swedish Chef, i'm going to call it now: i bet one future episode will have someone just come out and ask Angelo, "so how come you're doing this show and not The Swedish Chef" to which Angelo will reply, "Well of course they called him first but he was so busy with his other pursuits that he reccomended me." "What other pursuits?" "Well, for one - he's been trying to branch out more as a singer" which will then lead to that episode's midscene featuring the classic trio of Beaker/Animal/Chef attempting a song.

 

[frogboy4]

Since this is a busy thread, i'll just throw out random thoughts as opposed to replying to other comments.

- Yeah, the real hands obviously draw very direct comparisons to Swedish Chef (as if there weren't a myriad of other reasons to compare them) but really it's such a given choice since he's constantly handling real food (not just prop food or "fake food" that's often used in menu photographs - cooking shows are different - even Muppet ones).

- I don't think people are giving Disney/Muppet Studios enough credit for not thinking/knowing how Angelo may be received by Muppet fans. The current team very much "gets" the Muppets, they generally know exactly what they're doing...i'm sure they thought about all of what would go into how "the new guy" would be welcomed. A lot of the evidence is actually right there in the episodes - in the first block of webisodes, Swedish Chef is there to remind people no he's not gone or forgotten and Angelo establishes his relationship to him. In the second block, Beau asks Angelo "didn't you used to be Swedish?" Great joke in itself but the writers also totally did that because they knew a lot of the audience were thinking/feeling that way too. I'll bet in each block of episodes there'll be at least one appearance or reference to Swedish Chef.

- I initially didn't like how the first episode was the birthday episode where our introduction to Angelo had him in drag and really confused everyone as to who he was. I now think that was an unintended fluke - since they're loading the new episodes "top to bottom", i think that was actually SUPPOSED to be "episode 4" but no one stopped to think about how it would end up being everyone's first view of the show.

- I think because there's been such a push by Disney to reestablish the classic characters within the Classic Muppets, it's begun to spoil people in terms of their expectations of who they should see where. Throughout their 50+ years, new characters have always been introduced - heck, even though there were a few "familiar faces", the group now known as the Classic Muppets were themselves a large group of newbies. If the internet was around in 1976, i'm sure the universal reaction on fanboards would have been "how can they call this The Muppet Show? Where are all the Muppets i know and love like Cookie Monster and Oscar?" We all know about the big group of newbies that came from Muppets Tonight but what about the Jim Henson Hour? The JHH characters seem to be huge (and dearly missed) favorite characters by a lot of people here but the ratio of new characters to "old familiar ones" on JHH was initially more jarring when JHH debuted than when MT did.

- Likewise, i'm not quite placing my bets in the same camp that everyone else is when people are constantly saying "oh well, like him or hate him, this is the only place you'll see Angelo anyway" I'm not so sure...i don't think he'll be a MAJOR character anywhere else but i betcha he'll make various cameos here and there in future projects even if it's a non-speaking role. But i'll be willing to bet somewhere down the line in the next five to ten years whether it be in a movie, tv show or other medium there'll be a scene with Angelo and The Swedish Chef working together and having to deal with some kind of catastrophe (he may for example end up being "the new Gladys" - something along those lines)

- Before this show debuted, one of the Swedish Chef's biggest fan complaints (besides that awful poser "kissing fingers" photo always appearing EVERYWHERE) has been that he's getting "too good" with his English - sometimes speaking whole sentences in English; though still heavily accented. How much you wanna bet that would be the major thing we'd all be dissecting if he was hosting this show?

- Again, going back to my earlier speculation that each block of episodes will include either an appearance of or reference to The Swedish Chef, i'm going to call it now: i bet one future episode will have someone just come out and ask Angelo, "so how come you're doing this show and not The Swedish Chef" to which Angelo will reply, "Well of course they called him first but he was so busy with his other pursuits that he reccomended me." "What other pursuits?" "Well, for one - he's been trying to branch out more as a singer" which will then lead to that episode's midscene featuring the classic trio of Beaker/Animal/Chef attempting a song.

I understand where you're coming from, but can't completely agree with all of it. I must admit that new Muppets aren't only vital; Jim himself kept introducing new characters throughout his Muppeting career. However, pre-1990 the team had much more time to cultivate a new cast. To plant the seeds of a character and gain audience support over time. These clips don't provide that opportunity. The new chef is pegged by most as "not-the-Swedish-Chef" rather than Angelo the chef.

This cooking show seems almost like a workshop to sharpen everybody's puppeteer skills between gigs. It also is good promotion geared toward families that don't know Elmo from Animal. Trust me - - that's the weird place the Muppets have been in pop culture for far too long. There's at least one generation of people living in Muppet Show character ignorance.

I still think Angelo will fall away once the new blitz of legit projects in film and television come along. I'm surprised that Polly and Clueless weren't used more. Sure, they were on MT, but only the UK spots. Talk about dynamic Muppets! Those guys were golden. I'm sure Angelo will be utilized in the background and possibly for bits in the future until the puppet falls into disrepair and Disney has to make the choice whether to pony up the petty cash to make a new one or create a new character.

Angelo's okay. I just kind of see him as Muppet created by committee like Poochy from Itchy and Scratchy. The best Muppets come from humor first.

 

[Drtooth]

I still think Angelo will fall away once the new blitz of legit projects in film and television come along. I'm surprised that Polly and Clueless weren't used more. Sure, they were on MT, but only the UK spots. Talk about dynamic Muppets! Those guys were golden. I'm sure Angelo will be utilized in the background and possibly for bits in the future until the puppet falls into disrepair and Disney has to make the choice whether to pony up the petty cash to make a new one or create a new character.

I'd wager Polly isn't seen due to Kevin's business with his Sesame Street duties. It's the same reason we don't see much of Clifford or anyone else in Muppet projects past MT... I'd like to see him recast, but I really felt Polly was one of Kevin's best characters.

Likewise, i'm not quite placing my bets in the same camp that everyone else is when people are constantly saying "oh well, like him or hate him, this is the only place you'll see Angelo anyway" I'm not so sure...i don't think he'll be a MAJOR character anywhere else but i betcha he'll make various cameos here and there in future projects even if it's a non-speaking role. But i'll be willing to bet somewhere down the line in the next five to ten years whether it be in a movie, tv show or other medium there'll be a scene with Angelo and The Swedish Chef working together and having to deal with some kind of catastrophe (he may for example end up being "the new Gladys" - something along those lines)

That's really one of the things I want to see. I don't see how Angelo can have any of Tyler's major wacky character portrayals if all he does is crack bad jokes and stand there. He's doing the best he can, adding a small bit of crazy here and there, blowing him up as something in the last segment. It actually seems tough to find a real voice for such a character. As I've said before, the Swedish Chef wouldn't work all that well either... he'd basically just stand their like Angelo and not doing any of his usual wacky stunts. I still think they can find a way around that and have him pop up somewhere and try to make the same stuff, only literally. Or accidentally screwing up whatever they're cooking. I say the best compromise is to have him pop up every so often to do something wacky. Still think he needs a small 1 minute segment at the end of each cooking episode.

But as for Angelo, I really think the best way he could be used is a three way tie between Gladys, Beaker, and Don Music (Wow... all Richard characters without even thinking). Something to the tune of the initially good humored bad joke telling assistant/apprentice chef to the Swede, who's also the brunt of most of the culinary catastrophes, and gets very frustrated with the Chef when it happens. Or, when he tries to get something to come out right himself, he takes it personally. I swear, if they ever wanted to reboot the character of Don Music on Sesame Street, Tyler should play him. I see a lot of that potentially in Angelo, just... it's not a real place it can be demonstrated.

 

[Luke]

Yeah i think Tyler's not doin a bad job for the position he's in. The argument about new characters is debatable. Surely now is not a time to experiment, its a time to establish the Muppet family with a new audience and having anyone other than Kermit "lead" could confuse things, but i'm sure there's all different reasons, probably some political.

I'm not sure whether we would be seeing Angelo again. It depends whether its meant to be Angelo and Cat Cora's Kitchen and the Muppets drop in, or whether it's Cat Cora's Kitchen and Angelo is amongst the Muppets visiting. I think lol.

I agree he is more of a Sesame Muppet, i thought that when i first saw him. Just doesn't look right for a Classic Muppet thing.

 

[frogboy4]

Yeah i think Tyler's not doin a bad job for the position he's in. The argument about new characters is debatable. Surely now is not a time to experiment, its a time to establish the Muppet family with a new audience and having anyone other than Kermit "lead" could confuse things, but i'm sure there's all different reasons, probably some political.

I'm not sure whether we would be seeing Angelo again. It depends whether its meant to be Angelo and Cat Cora's Kitchen and the Muppets drop in, or whether it's Cat Cora's Kitchen and Angelo is amongst the Muppets visiting. I think lol.

I agree he is more of a Sesame Muppet, i thought that when i first saw him. Just doesn't look right for a Classic Muppet thing.

How is it that you manage to say what I'm thinking much better than I can? Exactly!

I always wondered why Polly and Pepe didn't have more interaction. Maybe because Bill is Clueless too. I miss them and hope they're brought back for something.

 

[muppetperson]

Throughout their 50+ years, new characters have always been introduced - heck, even though there were a few "familiar faces", the group now known as the Classic Muppets were themselves a large group of newbies. If the internet was around in 1976, i'm sure the universal reaction on fanboards would have been "how can they call this The Muppet Show? Where are all the Muppets i know and love like Cookie Monster and Oscar?" We all know about the big group of newbies that came from Muppets Tonight but what about the Jim Henson Hour?

I dont agree with you there.It all comes down to how it is promoted.When the Muppet show started(and Fraggle Rock,etc) it was promoted as "from the person behind "Sesame street", so you knew it was going to be a different show and different characters. Muppets Tonight however was promoted as the Muppets making a comeback,so some of the flack there was that very little of them came back and there was so many newbies.
I think the problem with Angelo is that he wasnt given much notice that he was coming-he just showed up,so some people,like me, thought it was the Swedish Chef after a make over.
At least we are getting notice that Walter is coming.I wonder what reception he will get?

 

[Beauregard]

Surely now is not a time to experiment, its a time to establish the Muppet family with a new audience and having anyone other than Kermit "lead" could confuse things, but i'm sure there's all different reasons, probably some political.

I will just disagree slightly here, because while re-establishing the family of the main Muppets is important, its also important that we are not left with a Simpsons-esque cast of about 21 characters that cannot be developed any further. Adding some new characters now while re-building leaves room to continue to add more characters in the future without it seeming jarring.

Also: BEAUREGARD! BEAUREGARD! BEAUREGARD!