"The Muppets" isn't the Muppets

[dwmckim]

When it comes to the act of saying "I love you" though - many times it's the action of telling someone that which actually is showing something...especially if it's a long time coming.

 

[Rugby]

I too thought you stated that the Muppets should refrain from using any political or polarizing figures because the liberal ones, like Whoopi, offend you. DW was colorfully demonstrating the rich history of the Muppets in that context. Much of entertainment skews liberal and a lot of actors tend to be vocal about their beliefs. The vetting process you propose would be nearly impossible. Heck, I don't appreciate much of what Mel Gibson has done and said in the press or his very violent religious film, but I'd welcome his working with the Muppets. Above all, the Muppets are about funny and there's no doubt that would be hilarious!

Why do I have to like Whoopi? There was something she said about a particular thing I will not bring up here that leads me to believe the woman doesn't have a brain or is nuts. I said I didn't want the muppets to be all about Jason Segel and I certainly don't want them to be all about Whoopi either. And by politically polarizing, I didn't mean exclusively liberal. I wouldn't want to see Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity connected with the muppets either. And let me make something clear. I don't care what your politics are. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. It's when they are put out in public and shoved in people's faces that it becomes a problem for me. I hope this clears things up and the people that are raging mad at me settle down a little bit.
This all started because we were talking about what we liked and didn't like about the muppets. Apparently Whoopi is on the 'do not touch' list I guess and is some revered muppet guest of honor, because for some reason people got all upset that I dare bring it up. When I think of the muppets, I certainly do not want Whoopi Goldberg, an irrelevant comic from the 80's, to come to mind first. I don't see why this is a problem. I'm not making it an issue, other people are. I'm not getting in other people's faces for their views, so what's the deal?

 

[Pinkflower7783]

Okay lets just drop this and move on please? It's obvious it's getting nowhere just agree to disagree so we can get this thread back on topic. Please!!

 

[Ruahnna]

Yes. Yes, DwmcKim Sweetie--you've gotten it. And, I must admit, Piggy didn't really need Kermit to say that he loved her to know it in her heart. In fact, the problem wasn't that he wasn't showing it--the problem, which we all loooovvvveeed to watch, was that he did keep showing it, but then he'd open his stupid froggy lips and deny what was painfully obvious to everyone. Poor Piggy--to know in her heart that he loved her but that he didn't want to love her!

I adored the emotional growth that we got to see Piggy embrace. Some of it was subtle--Piggy no longer speaks faux French with a bad French accent--she speaks real French, in Paris, France. And she actually didn't need Kermit's stupid ol' duck pond (insider reference) to make it on her own--she made it on her talent and ability. I also admire and respect her for walking away when Kermit crossed a line. Kermit always felt he could treat he with casual disregard--with impunity--and she'd still be there, still waiting for him, still faithful--because he knew she loved him. (What a louse!) Kermit continually used his position as her boss to get close to her--did you notice how, in TGMC, only Piggy says she loved him, but he does not reciprocate? Wouldn't you have loved to sit in on that script read-through? Like Professor Higgens' mother, I think she should have chucked the fire irons at him. I'm proud of her for leaving, and I'm proud of her for coming back because they need her, but I was so, soooo proud of her for actually having an open-ended ticket and planning to return to the life she's made instead of just threatening to have one. Piggy was real in The Muppets, fully realized and as emotionally complex as any woman on the planet. Lastly, (and yes, yes I am a hopeless fangirl) I loved Piggy's refusal to settle for anything less than what she needs to have a healthy relationship with Kermie. Loving someone who only sortof likes you, and uses you and isn't nice to you is not the diva I know and love. Although she might not be happy without him, she finally figured out that she couldn't be happy with him if she didn't know--really know--he loved her.

Yes. Yes I do do this for fun.

 

[Pinkflower7783]

Yes. Yes, DwmcKim Sweetie--you've gotten it. And, I must admit, Piggy didn't really need Kermit to say that he loved her to know it in her heart. In fact, the problem wasn't that he wasn't showing it--the problem, which we all loooovvvveeed to watch, was that he did keep showing it, but then he'd open his stupid froggy lips and deny what was painfully obvious to everyone. Poor Piggy--to know in her heart that he loved her but that he didn't want to love her!

I adored the emotional growth that we got to see Piggy embrace. Some of it was subtle--Piggy no longer speaks faux French with a bad French accent--she speaks real French, in Paris, France. And she actually didn't need Kermit's stupid ol' duck pond (insider reference) to make it on her own--she made it one her talent and ability. I also admire and respect her for walking away when Kermit crossed a line. Kermit always felt he could treat he with casual disregard--with impunity--and she'd still be there, still waiting for him, still faithful--because he knew she loved him. (What a louse!) Kermit continually used his position as her boss to get close to her--did you notice how, in TGMC, only Piggy says she loved him, but he does not reciprocate? Wouldn't you have loved to sit in on that script read-through? Like Professor Higgens' mother, I think she should have chucked the fire irons at him. I'm proud of her for leaving, and I'm proud of her for coming back because they need her, but I was so, soooo proud of her for actually having an open-ended ticket and planning to return to the life she's made instead of just threatening to have one. Piggy was real in The Muppets, fully realized and as emotionally complex as any woman on the planet. Lastly, (and yes, yes I am a hopeless fangirl) I loved Piggy's refusal to settle for anything less than what she needs to have a healthy relationship with Kermie. Loving someone who only sortof likes you, and uses you and isn't nice to you is not the diva I know and love. Although she might not be happy without him, she finally figured out that she couldn't be happy with him if she didn't know--really know--he loved her.

Yes. Yes I do do this for fun.

If I could like this a thousand times I would! Lol!

 

[Pinkflower7783]

When it comes to the act of saying "I love you" though - many times it's the action of telling someone that which actually is showing something...especially if it's a long time coming.

I love this! Couldn't have said it better!

 

[Ruahnna]

On a lighter note, here are two things I enjoy seeing Kermit do:

Even though he is sortof yelling at Fozzie for losing the money bag in VMX, it's sortof sweet the way he isn't ugly about it to Fozzie, but tries as patiently as he is able to help Fozzie remember. I found that aspect of him very appealing because he is firm with Fozzie but also gentle.

I also REALLY enjoyed the way that we get to see Kermit's two different sides--the one ON stage and the one OFF stage in The Muppets. In TMS, if Kermit scheduled singing mushrooms, you got the impression that he really thought that might be a swell act. Think Gonzo saying, "I'll take a picture of this chicken!" and Kermit's "Oh, good," in TGMC. In The Muppets, we get to see more of the "showman" Kermit, who moves on when things go wrong without alerting the audience that there's a problem. I LOVED seeing that side of him, because it is the heart and soul of a real entertainer, and it actually harks (a little) back to TMM, when Kermit hops up on stage to help Fozzie entertain. Whatever it takes to please the crowd....

Also--and I'm sortof pulling up someone else's thought from before, I have to say that although I loved The Muppet Show, when I go back and watch them I am always surprised by the number of acts that have NOTHING AT ALL to do with "our" characters. Sometimes, I want to fastforward through the acts (even though I like singing mushrooms) to get to "the good stuff," which was the character development that happened back stage. And Oh! When Kermit would erupt into arm waving hysteria...*sigh* Heaven. (Unless, of course, it's politically incorrect to say "Heaven." If so, please insert your own individual version of a happy after life and leave mine alone.)

 

[jvcarroll]

Why do I have to like Whoopi? There was something she said about a particular thing I will not bring up here that leads me to believe the woman doesn't have a brain or is nuts. I said I didn't want the muppets to be all about Jason Segel and I certainly don't want them to be all about Whoopi either. And by politically polarizing, I didn't mean exclusively liberal. I wouldn't want to see Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity connected with the muppets either. And let me make something clear. I don't care what your politics are. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. It's when they are put out in public and shoved in people's faces that it becomes a problem for me. I hope this clears things up and the people that are raging mad at me settle down a little bit.
This all started because we were talking about what we liked and didn't like about the muppets. Apparently Whoopi is on the 'do not touch' list I guess and is some revered muppet guest of honor, because for some reason people got all upset that I dare bring it up. When I think of the muppets, I certainly do not want Whoopi Goldberg, an irrelevant comic from the 80's, to come to mind first. I don't see why this is a problem. I'm not making it an issue, other people are. I'm not getting in other people's faces for their views, so what's the deal?

I never said you had to like Whoopi in order to tolerate her appearing in a Muppet project. She's first and foremost an entertainer and has served the Muppets well without inserting any political agenda. The point I made is that the Muppets themselves have shown more political leanings during and after Jim Henson's era than Whoopi Goldberg ever has in any of the Muppet projects. She has made polarizing statements in her time outside of the Muppets. So have Robin Williams and other comedians of that status. I would not call her or any of them "polarizing figures" as you have. I guess you don't like her and have some sort of bone to pick. I understand that and there are many such actors that I don't really want to see with the Muppets, but I'm not going to call for some sort of arbitrary banishment from future Muppet projects. That's just silly.

I could see a situation when the Muppets could share the same space as Rush Limbaugh if they were on a talk show together, but unlike Whoopi, he's made countless sexist, racist, violent, antisemitic and homophobic statements* that fall outside of political preference. It's not that he's a Republican. There are many nice Republicans. Rush is a bigot. I would not want him to appear on a Muppets special because that sort of thing crosses the line because such statements are not merely differences of opinion. They are hate speech. The Muppets should not have any part of that.

*Feel free to look up these instances. There are many and I have no time or tolerance to wade through bigotry.

You may not personally like Whoopi. That's okay. You don't have to. I don't like Barbara Streisand. That doesn't mean she isn't worthy of the Muppets.

 

[Beauregard]

Sorry to be blunt but for me that's the difference between good writing and not so good writing. The rule of TV and movies: Show don't tell.

However, the rule of modern audiences is often...they won't get it if you don't tell.

 

[Pinkflower7783]

Yes. Yes, DwmcKim Sweetie--you've gotten it. And, I must admit, Piggy didn't really need Kermit to say that he loved her to know it in her heart. In fact, the problem wasn't that he wasn't showing it--the problem, which we all loooovvvveeed to watch, was that he did keep showing it, but then he'd open his stupid froggy lips and deny what was painfully obvious to everyone. Poor Piggy--to know in her heart that he loved her but that he didn't want to love her!

I adored the emotional growth that we got to see Piggy embrace. Some of it was subtle--Piggy no longer speaks faux French with a bad French accent--she speaks real French, in Paris, France. And she actually didn't need Kermit's stupid ol' duck pond (insider reference) to make it on her own--she made it on her talent and ability. I also admire and respect her for walking away when Kermit crossed a line. Kermit always felt he could treat he with casual disregard--with impunity--and she'd still be there, still waiting for him, still faithful--because he knew she loved him. (What a louse!) Kermit continually used his position as her boss to get close to her--did you notice how, in TGMC, only Piggy says she loved him, but he does not reciprocate? Wouldn't you have loved to sit in on that script read-through? Like Professor Higgens' mother, I think she should have chucked the fire irons at him. I'm proud of her for leaving, and I'm proud of her for coming back because they need her, but I was so, soooo proud of her for actually having an open-ended ticket and planning to return to the life she's made instead of just threatening to have one. Piggy was real in The Muppets, fully realized and as emotionally complex as any woman on the planet. Lastly, (and yes, yes I am a hopeless fangirl) I loved Piggy's refusal to settle for anything less than what she needs to have a healthy relationship with Kermie. Loving someone who only sortof likes you, and uses you and isn't nice to you is not the diva I know and love. Although she might not be happy without him, she finally figured out that she couldn't be happy with him if she didn't know--really know--he loved her.

Yes. Yes I do do this for fun.

I'm sure you've seen even outside the film Kermit in interviews has fully admitted his relationship with Piggy. Infact since the film it's the most I've seen them actually act like a couple since Kermit has stopped being coy. It was obviously planned ahead of time they were gonna carry what happened in the film also outside. Because up until the film was released Kermit was still denying anything was there. But since the release he's been consistent with his answers when it comes to Piggy. If you saw them on the bachelorette Kermit actually said and no movie this time!! Told Piggy he loved her and I don't care if Kermit was under the threat of her or not he said "I only love you, you know that." and he meant it too! Because we could've just as easily went back to TMS days and have Kermit run off stage. But he didn't and I think it's a testament to Steve's development and character growth for Kermit. And I don't think Disney had any hand in (no joke intended) having Kermit say they're a couple I think it was something Steve and Eric discussed way before the film was released.

This video here shows the chemistry between them and one of the best interviews with them. Because in it you can tell their together they ACT like it.
http://cultura.elpais.com/cultura/2012/01/23/videos/1327346050_558498.html