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The movie could have been even better (article)

CensoredAlso

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We don't know to what extent, but I'm sure Jim and Kirk guided them through the film.
No offense to at all to them, but when a script is made better it isn't always the case that the veterans were the ones to do it. Star Trek II was hugely successful, yet written and directed by a completely newbie who'd never watched Star Trek a day in his life.
 

Borples

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We don't know to what extent, but I'm sure Jim and Kirk guided them through the film. If nothing else, we have proof of their hand in the "Kermit wouldn't live in a mansion" part by, let's face it, a FAR better concept of a house Kermit and Piggy bought back during happier times that Kermit still maintains and holds onto singlehandedly. That's much more in tone with the Muppets and the overall movie than just a success spoiling Kermit tone.
I think the performers had a good bit to do with keeping things appropriately Muppety, too. If I remember right, Jason Segel and Nick Bobin have said as much. They also talk about the "Muppet Bible" that was given to them, but I'm not sure where that came from? I assume it was Jim and Kirk and whoever else is hanging around Muppet Studios these days.
 

frogboy4

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Sure the movie could have been better and it could have been worse. Let's face it, most people expected it to be worse! They were in the impossible position of having to be all things to all people and magically, whatever they did worked. For the most part.

Sure, I have an endless list of notes, but who's to say that wouldn't have soured the experience to some people? To me, this was more than a film. This was a movement that brought back he Muppets and I hope that the next film will smooth over the rough edges of this ambitious re-launch. There will be more confidence with the next one. I'm sure the production team took note of the criticisms peppered among the mostly glowing reviews so that the next movie will do even better.
 

Drtooth

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No offense to at all to them, but when a script is made better it isn't always the case that the veterans were the ones to do it. Star Trek II was hugely successful, yet written and directed by a completely newbie who'd never watched Star Trek a day in his life.
In this case the vets are in charge of Disney quality control. That's the main thing. Notes about Kermit being in the mansion and that the Muppets rarely ever refer to themselves as puppets (and when they do, it's a sly little aside done cleverly). Plus, I'm sure the Muppeteers made darn well sure the characters were as close to the characters we know and love.

However, it was that very same outsider angle that brought passion and vision to the film. Left to their own devices, as great as Jim and Kirk are doing they would have made some weird gimmicky movie we just couldn't get excited about at all. Maybe even another (gasp) classic retelling. And with C-List at the moment stars that fit poorly. I wouldn't be surprised if Schnooky or whatever that trilobite's name is would have a pointless cameo.

The Muppets showed such a brilliant blend of insider and outsider cooperation.

The Star Trek movies... I can't really comment on. I've heard even fans hated them, except a couple... the same ones that are absolute purists that forced themselves to hate the 2009 J.J. Abrahms movie that everyone else in the world loved. I actually JUST started watching Star Trek's original series care of MeTV, and I can see what the problem might have been. There's such an amazing style the show has, and it broke some barriers that never needed to be broken again. It left all too soon leaving animated adaptions, movies, novels, new generations and all that... they probably just didn't have the same feel no matter how hard they tried. And that's probably the problem. They tried too hard. Outsiders sometimes have better vision because the vets think inside the box too much.
 

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The Star Trek movies... I can't really comment on. I've heard even fans hated them, except a couple... the same ones that are absolute purists that forced themselves to hate the 2009 J.J. Abrahms movie that everyone else in the world loved.
It's not really accurate to say the fans "hated the movies." Star Trek fans traditionally "hate" the first film and were a bit disappointed with the 5th film, Insurrection and Nemesis, but the overwhelming majority of Star Trek films were very successful with fans.

The 2009 film has tons of potential and I enjoyed it, but Wrath of Khan it is not, lol.
 

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I'm just gonna say and I do it too and that the fact of the matter is, is Jim is gone and so as much as we would like to think "does the film live to what Jim would have wanted or what would Jim have done" The Muppets are on their own and they have to find their own way without Jim. As Jim said in a video of A Muppet Family Christmas "It looks like their having a good time, I like it when they have a good time." And I think that's all Jim would have wanted "Just seeing his creations have a good time."
 

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The Muppets are on their own and they have to find their own way without Jim. As Jim said in a video of A Muppet Family Christmas "It looks like their having a good time, I like it when they have a good time." And I think that's all Jim would have wanted "Just seeing his creations have a good time."
I agree and that's why I enjoyed The Muppets (2011) because it was the first time I'd felt that in awhile. :smile:
 

frogboy4

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There's no way they can be Jim's Muppets again because he's gone and that kind of walking on eggshells doesn't make for good comedy. Well, unless they are physically walking on eggshells. I can't imagine that wouldn't be funny. The most important thing is that they can and did honor Jim. In fact, I think last year's film is the first big project to do just that whole-heartedly.
 

Pinkflower7783

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Yep and nobody is Jim and nobody will ever be Jim and that's okay. It's sort of like Walt Disney they the animators had to find their own way as well. Even one of the animators at Disney at one point said that "hey were not Walt and we need to find our own way our own path."
 

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Yep and nobody is Jim and nobody will ever be Jim and that's okay. It's sort of like Walt Disney they the animators had to find their own way as well. Even one of the animators at Disney at one point said that "hey were not Walt and we need to find our own way our own path."
Yeah I mean I don't think anyone minds them finding their own path as long as it's not a complete 180 from Jim (or Walt's) vision, which I would argue it has been occasionally in the past.
 
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