• Welcome to the Muppet Central Forum!
    You are viewing our forum as a guest. Join our free community to post topics and start private conversations. Please contact us if you need help.
  • "Muppets Now" premieres on Disney+
    The Muppets fifth series of all time debuted on Disney+. Make plans to watch one of the most anticipated shows of the year. New episodes premiere every Friday through September 4.
  • 50 Years and Counting
    Read our review and discuss with fans the highly anticipated Sesame Street "50 Years and Counting" DVD set from Shout Factory featuring over five hours of beloved moments.
  • 50 Years and Still Sunny!
    Read fan reactions and let us know your thoughts on the all-new Sesame Street documentary "50 Years and Still Sunny!" hosted by Gloria Estefan.
  • The Dark Crystal: "Age of Resistance"
    After a 36 year wait, return to the great conjunction. The Dark Crystal "Age of Resistance" is a mesmerizing and beautiful prequel series now on Netflix. Renew your essence today.
  • Music is Everywhere
    Muppet Central Radio is now on TorontoCast, TuneIn, Apple, Amazon and Google. Listen to Muppet music 24/7 wherever you go with TuneIn and Apple apps and devices.

The movie could have been even better (article)

beaker

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2002
Messages
7,762
Reaction score
858
I know it's gotten almost 100% unanimous praise from critics and fans alike, but after seeing it a couple times I just cannot shake loose that something is not just a little but drastically off.
After reading this article on what was deleted, I am so wishing we lived in a world where THIS was the final cut of the movie. It would have tied EVERYTHING together, and would have been a near flawless film. Watching it now, I feel Im glimpsing something that is special, but that Im glimpsing something that HAD the potential to be even more stellar

It sounds like a LOT of scenes they shot were cut and or nixed altogether..I have no idea why they cut some of this stuff, as it would have made so much more sense. I know its taboo right now to nitpick, but I think we'd have 100% instead of 98% reviews.
http://badassdigest.com/2011/11/28/the-original-ending-of-the-muppets

I was troubled by the ending of The Muppets. Our heroes failed to raise enough money to buy back The Muppet Studios (failed cataclysmically, in fact, as Fozzie bumping into the tote board reveals) and so lose not just the studio but the name "The Muppets" and their own names and likenesses. Evil Tex Richman wins the day. Kermit leads the Muppets (and human friends) out into the street to find thousands of folks thronging them, cheering the return of the characters. Everybody sings a happy song and there's 'The End' in fireworks and it's happy!
Except that the Muppets still failed and Tex Richman owns everything. You have to stick through the credits to see how that gets wrapped up - Gonzo hits Richman in the head with a bowling ball and, from his hospital bed, he gives everything back to the Muppets. All of this happens in newspaper headlines over the closing credits.
Whatever your opinion is of The Muppets, this is kind of a weird ending. It feels like a lot of important stuff was cut or removed and we ended up left with some newspaper headlines explaining the finale. And it feels that way because it was that way - there was once a different ending. According to my sources this different ending was shot, and I guess it could end up on the DVD/Blu.
There was actually quite a bit cut from The Muppets, including a slew of celeb cameos (you'll remember Danny Trejo showing up in a trailer but not being in the movie) and some secondary character stuff (I have heard 80s Robot had more to do at one point). But the ending is the thing most radically changed as James Bobin tried to find the shape of the movie.
The endings diverge when the big tote board comes up one dollar short. In the released film Fozzie bumps it and we see they're actually millions short. In the original film they're always one dollar short, and when it looks like all hope is lost Waldorf and Statler pipe up from the balcony. "That wasn't so bad after all," they say, and toss down a dollar. The Muppets are victorious.
There must have been a good reason to change that ending because for my money it's way better than what they ended up with. Most importantly it redeems Waldorf and Statler, who at the beginning of the movie are helping Richman find a loophole in Kermit's contract. What's more it cleanly wraps up the story, and it does so by involving characters who are rarely directly involved in Muppet adventures. It's a good, strong ending.
I believe that elements of the Richman finale were always in the ending, especially Gonzo and the bowling ball. See, another deleted sequence involved a flashback to Tex's childhood. We learn that he was entertained at his birthday by the Muppets (remember him saying at the beginning of the film that he's been a fan since he was a kid?), but for some reason Tex can't laugh. He can't receive the third greatest gift the Muppets have to offer. It's traumatizing for him.
That sets up his desire to destroy the Muppet Studios, as well as his 'Maniacal laugh' gag (although the reveal is later in the film, so his initial 'Maniacal laugh' would still work as a non-sequiter). What's more this sets up Richman as the ultimate anti-Walter, a nice touch. At the end of the film Gonzo would still have hit him with the bowling ball, which would knock loose the block that kept Richman from laughing - we actually see him laughing in his hospital bed in the finished film. So while Richman would have lost the day he would have won back his ability to laugh.
These are just some of the scenes that were cut or changed in The Muppets. The script was in flux during production, and there were some big reshoots on the film as well. I hope that at least some of this stuff ends up on the home video release; I actually wouldn't mind a whole new cut that incoporates the original Waldorf and Statler ending.
If only *sigh*



 

Avilos

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2011
Messages
66
Reaction score
51
None of the previous Muppet films have been longer than an hour and 30 minutes or an hour and forty minutes. This was an hour and 38 minutes.

The length was the reason. Family films tend to work better at that timing. The only complaints about the film on missing scenes and its affect on the overall film are from hardcore fans with the knowledge of that stuff.
 

beaker

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2002
Messages
7,762
Reaction score
858
None of the previous Muppet films have been longer than an hour and 30 minutes or an hour and forty minutes. This was an hour and 38 minutes.

The length was the reason. Family films tend to work better at that timing. The only complaints about the film on missing scenes and its affect on the overall film are from hardcore fans with the knowledge of that stuff.
Right, but why is it "fantasy" family and kids films can get away with being over two hours? Ive rarely seen a kids film like Muppet movies that can make you cry or tear up. So I wouldnt put it in the same category as your typical cgi fest if I were a company executive.

Ive actually talked with non fans and read some reviews where they took issue with the ending and some of the pacing/scenes that felt edited. It's definitely not just fans.

I have a feeling had the movie been allowed to breathe more and less edited, noone would be complaining and itd be even beyond what people are raving about
 

CensoredAlso

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Messages
14,028
Reaction score
2,290
I was troubled by the ending of The Muppets. Our heroes failed to raise enough money to buy back The Muppet Studios and so lose not just the studio but the name "The Muppets" and their own names and likenesses. Evil Tex Richman wins the day. Kermit leads the Muppets out into the street to find thousands of folks thronging them, cheering the return of the characters.. Except that the Muppets still failed and Tex Richman owns everything.
Well that's OK, It's a Wonderful Life ends basically the same way with the villain technically "winning." Yet it still remains one of the most beloved endings in movie history.
 

minor muppetz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
15,652
Reaction score
2,530
Ever since I saw Statler and Waldorf with Tex Richman in the trailers I had hoped that they would somehow help the Muppets in the end. I also expected them to be assisting Richman a bit more in the movie.

The junior novel includes the scene with Statler and Waldorf deciding to give the Muppets the last dollar needed, by dropping it from the balcony, only for wind to blow it away (so the Muppets are still short on money... And this is followed by the amount changing so they still weren't even close).
 

Avilos

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2011
Messages
66
Reaction score
51
Right, but why is it "fantasy" family and kids films can get away with being over two hours? Ive rarely seen a kids film like Muppet movies that can make you cry or tear up. So I wouldnt put it in the same category as your typical cgi fest if I were a company executive.
But all the classic Muppet films where of the same length. I was not talking about modern CGI films. Where the older films not long enough?
 

Puckrox

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
1,259
Reaction score
319
Well, that ending would have certainly tied things off. Let's just hope for the best with the DVD!
 

beaker

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2002
Messages
7,762
Reaction score
858
But all the classic Muppet films where of the same length. I was not talking about modern CGI films. Where the older films not long enough?
Aw that is true. But this does not feel at all like a classic film to me, as much as I know that was their intention. This feels like a very modern film(in the way its shot, edited, written, etc) and thats fine, as I know their heart was in(and they succeeded greatly) in bringing the classic feeling injected into a modern film.

I just think audiences now are ok with longer family features. And given that we're now learning of the wealth of edited scene, it will be curious to find out how much different(for better or worse) the film would have been...or if the cuts felt necessary.
 

Avilos

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2011
Messages
66
Reaction score
51
My point is we are living in a different age now. The films we grew up on as kids we knew nothing about early script drafts or cut scenes. There was no internet to read about such things and no way of ever seeing missing footage on DVDs. THough stuff like this always has happened on movies.
 

beaker

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2002
Messages
7,762
Reaction score
858
My point is we are living in a different age now. The films we grew up on as kids we knew nothing about early script drafts or cut scenes. There was no internet to read about such things and no way of ever seeing missing footage on DVDs. THough stuff like this always has happened on movies.
Thats true. Some films I loved as a kid I now see on dvd and go "ehh...I remember it being much better". Some films I grew up with in the 80's, blow me away even today and I literally find them flawless. With the advent of dvd it was fun to see all the deleted/alternate/extended takes of a film, or now and then happen upon a torrent of an early workprint. Sometimes a workprint or delete scenes would actually be better than the final product, or you can see why they decided to leave them out.
 
Top