The Mouse is Wooing Miss Piggy

[radionate]

Originally posted by ZootandDingo
Of course, it is apples and oranges when you look at the actual quality and styles of the shows, but I was moreso referring to how effectively Viacom has marketed them. They have taken otherwise overlooked programs and had launched them into the forefronts. My point is simply can one imagine if that kind of corporate drive was applied to something with an already built-in fanbase as The Muppets?

And veering off the topic slightly, Ren and Stimpy are coming back courtesy of their creator, so we'll see if lightning can strike twice.

ZootandDingo,

Scooby Doo has had a LARGE fan base since its inception. Why else would there have been so many incarcerations of it over the years? Warner Brothers had very little to do with creating a "breakout hit", it already was one. What helped propel it back into the limelight was the fact that the first generation that grew up with Scooby and Shaggy are now having children that are also watching; it’s a double whammy. The worst thing is that Warner Brothers almost saturated and did overkill with Scooby when they gained rights to the Hanna Barbara library a few years back.

I think the success of shows like Beavis and Butthead, Ren & Stimpy, and Sponge Bob Square Pants isn't so much the marketing of Viacom, but rather a MINIMAL AMOUNT OF marketing and a lot of fan base. Word of mouth is what propelled these shows. Then they ran with the marketing stuff. I believe it was the press that embraced all three of these shows (for good or bad publicity), and that thrust them into the limelight and thus garnered them a larger audience. I don't know if Viacom can properly market a show that doesn't have outside factors helping. Of course, with the Muppets, it would be a whole different story, as they have momentum that Viacom can build from. So I agree with you there.

And finally, Ren & Stimpy coming back? Oh Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy!

 

[Luke]

Hey Jamie,

Cool picture, i hadn't realised it was from you, or that in fact it was't some official picture from over the years - i guess if nobody notices then it's the best compliment right ? ;-)

 

[ZootandDingo]

Originally posted by radionate
Scooby Doo has had a LARGE fan base since its inception. Why else would there have been so many incarcerations of it over the years? Warner Brothers had very little to do with creating a "breakout hit", it already was one. What helped propel it back into the limelight was the fact that the first generation that grew up with Scooby and Shaggy are now having children that are also watching; it’s a double whammy. The worst thing is that Warner Brothers almost saturated and did overkill with Scooby when they gained rights to the Hanna Barbara library a few years back.

This I have to politely disagree with you on. I would say Scooby's mass appeal and fanbase up until this recent renaissance probably equaled The Muppets' now (or rather, until the time of this anniversary celebration). And I'm speaking as a lifelong Scooby fan, so I'm not out to bash the dog. By the early 90's Scooby was as cold as, say, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are now.

Scooby was getting good ratings on Cartoon Network, and when Time Warner purchased Turner (Hanna-Barbera), they just marketed the heck out of him. As you said, he was completely saturated, but that overexposure did help. In 1998 and 1999, Scooby was Time Warner's best selling licensed character, moreso than Bugs, Tweety, or Batman.

So yes, the nostalgia helped, but there was a definite corporate boost. If it was simply a matter of nostalgic parents introducing him to their kids, then why haven't The Muppets enjoyed the same sort of hype?

I believe AOL Time Warner knows how to market and profit off nostalgia (whether or not that's a good thing is open to debate). Just look at the ads they run for the Time/Life Muppet Show DVD's. They're definitely trying to go for the "You enjoyed them, now buy these for your kids" approach.

So, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you on why Scooby is popular now, I just think you're underestimating all that was involved in shoving him upfront.

Furthermore, it goes back to my point that Disney isn't the only studio out there that can take an acquired character and turn them into a household name (again).

 

[dwmckim]

As a fan of Jim Hill's work (and as someone who suggested MuppetCentral as a possible venue for his work after he was let go from laughingplace.com), i'm happy to at least see a piece from him while we're waiting for his regular column. The conclusions he makes are a bit controversial but i like that he at least tries to put recent events in some kind of perspective - even if it's one that not everyone agrees with.

My main criticism is that i really think that even though this wasn't yet one of his regular columns officially, i very much think that such a piece should go in the Articles section as opposed to News. Some of the criticism that's been mentioned is probably amplified due to the fact that when it comes under the banner of "News" it tends to give the impression that an opinion piece is being presented as absolute fact. (Granted, most professional journalists seem to be forgetting that these days and setting a poor example for tomorrow's generation but that's a whole different bugaboo!)

 

[BoyRaisin2]

I totally agree. It really should be in the "Articles" section since it didn't come from some newspaper and/or magazine.

Supplemental stories? You mean we are going to see more of these before "Movin' Right Along?"

 

[Phillip]

Putting this in the articles section is a valid suggestion and will be considered. It kind of depends how some upcoming additions play out, but it's a good idea. Thanks.

The Movin' Right Along columns will definitely be in articles though.

 

[Jessie]

Hey you guys we should start a bet to see who can guess which company finally gets Henson...I have my money on Disney. (Wishful thinking?) But I don't believe that Jim Hill would agree wth me...

 

[Drtooth]

Though I do have my problems with Disney buying Henson, I'll just come out and look on the bright side. First of all, there will be no way that the Muppets 3-D attraction will be closed down for legal reasons (If anything, this should keep the show in the parks) and secondly, none of this Denny's / Long John Silvers reagonal stuff. If a Muppet Promo for a fast food resteraunt should come up, it'd be at a McDonalds (due to the Disny/ McDonalds relationship!) I know, the food's bad, it's like burnt rubber, but at least there are McDonald's "resteraunts" (and I use the term loosely) all over the country. That way they'll be easier to get (provided the chain doesn't do another dumb, gender-stereotype Babie Hotwheels Happy Meal instead)

Oh! And how exactly are Ren & Stimpy coming back?

 

[Bean Bunny]

Off Topic

Ren & Stimpy will return via TNN's not TNT, new adult animtaed block. John. K ( the creator) and his studio Spumco will return to make new episodes and a new made for tv movie. check out http://www.cartoonreseach.com in the news section.

 

[danielromens]

Luke,

My point was more to think about what you are writing. Have you done something similar. I can think of a few times wheere you or someone else has scewed the news with your own interpretation or opinion. Most recently with Brian stepping down. Again, I stated that I didn't really agree with the article. To be quite honest I think his opinions are kind of BS. Yeah I think he's looking into things, but I sure has h*ll thought you have done the same things in the past. I probably have too for that matter. I just found it odd that you seemed so bent out of shape by another persons reading between the lines.

Also I think part of this is my fault in that I have a tendency to write in the same humorous or sarcastic tone as the toughpigs folks, but since you don't know me, it's taken as insulting or the like. Chalk that up to good old fashioned bias.

In this aspect I speak of a bias you seem to have toward your comrades at Toughpigs. In your "It's your fault" responce to Ken Lilly regarding his annoyance with toughpigs, you stood up for their criticism, be it sarcastic or not, and really sort of threw it in his face. Again I don't know you so I really can't be sure of the context of the emotion behind it, just the words themselves, as you have done with me. In your case, taking only the words, I thought it quite rude in your approach, as Ken has been quite awesome to share how a business works. You gave him the same "you better be ready to handle it" responce that could and should be given to you. Clearly in doing so much production you and the folks at Toughpigs should know things don't always go as planned. Although I know you guys want to seem humorous, it's just as easy to see you as whiney fan boys. I myself can be guilty. I've read some of my past post when people get offended and can recognize how it happens. I don't think you seem to grasp that completely. I think it's hard to criticize your own writings. Do I think we should change to make sure nobody gets hurt? H*ll no! I know what I'm saying and I trust others will no better to not get offended. I write these words with a smile on my face and my heart on my sleave and hope others respect me enough to do the same. I digress.

In returning to the subject at hand, How is Jim Hills article of his opinions on this FAN forum any different from the articles at toughpigs? TP also posts Muppet news and often in a humorous and sarcastic way as you put it. I guess I don't see the difference.

Also on a side note I find it laughable the Toughpig got disallusioned with a website. That just seems rediculous. It's all in good fun. Fans talking to fans. We can't agree all the time. TO me I find that some of you just seem to have a hard time dealing with criticism or disagreement of your posts. Again, If I do come off as attacking, just think of it as sarcastic. Yes it's an easy excuse, but no different than the one given to your own. I'm a lover not a fighter buddy (buddy being a term of indearment here, just so you think I'm trying not to condiscend). In fact inside I'm hugging you. Mmm, can you feel the love, I certainly can. Uhh....I should go.

Again food for though. I'm a real introspective fellow and am just trying to gain a level of understanding. I think it will help to achieve more discussion and less "hey that was harsh".