Since i haven't posted in this thread, i'm offering this as an observer (also as someone who was once a moderator of this forum before "real life" kept me from being able to be that active)
One of the major problems with discussions of religion in general (whether it be in this forum or other places on and off line) is that often people are coming to it from different "playing fields" - especially when the topic of faith comes up. There are those who will discuss the Bible as their sole point of reference...everything INSIDE it is where all the answers lie and they'll discuss from that perspective. Others come to the table with views and perspectives from OUTSIDE the Bible...including modern issues/current events and the history of how exactly what ended up inside the text (and the current English translations) came to be in there. Some are happy to never consider what went into making the Bible the text it is and will only look to inside its pages for their answers and views. Others are looking at a broader picture for their perspective. Ultimately what happens (and i've seen this occur throughout this thread) is those looking at the larger picture will offer what they've found and discovered and someone who looks inside will respond with passages and quotes. This is why i usually stay away from such discussions - they often don't go anywhere because half the participants are looking at The Mona Lisa and the other half are looking at Warhol's soup cans.
Nonetheless, i have seen this thread be very respectful and adult and perhaps because many of its participants have been involved with other threads that have gone downhill and have approached a new thread with previous mistakes and mishaps in mind, everyone's been VERY CAREFUL and have gone out of their way to not only present their observations in an adult and mature manner but also with appropriate disclaimers where they are very careful to mention certain incidents being applicable to a subsection as opposed to a large "all" stroke. People have been doing a wonderful job overall of representing their views while at the same time making clear the reasons they've come to them and taking care not to be offensive.
Ironically enough, the very first post to bring the rest of the discussion down and seemed to break away from the civility and maturity was Bannanasketch's post complaining about being offended. He saw something that obviously rubbed him the wrong way or made him angry and perhaps because he was colored by his emotions, did not fully read or bother to try to understand what the original poster was fully saying as he threw in lots of accusations that were false to what was previously being posted and in doing so slandered those he was disageeing with by (indirectly) quoting them way out of context.
Looking at his post which started to bring the otherwise well discussed conversation down...
Okay, this is it. I'm done with arguing about this.
That in itself may be a huge part of the problem. Everyone else has been "discussing". Bannanasketch seems to be approaching the thread as an arguement when everyone else has been taking a more civil approach.
Most of the comments I read are the same liberal crap I hear alot. I dont want to come on here and read all that.
For someone making a claim that the thread has been offensive, this is the first thing i've read in the thread that was very blatently being disrespectful. Apparently anything that Bannanasketch doesn't like or agree with is "liberal crap" In making a statement like that he (a) implies that a particular ideology or side of a spectrum is wrong, invalid, and worthy of disdain or insult, (b) uses vulgarity to do so (c) implies that only one political view (his) is "allowed" and (d) attempts to paint anything he doesn't like or agree with as being something political - whereas one's political affiliation does not have anything to do with their religious beliefs - people who are are conservative or liberal can both share same beliefs.
A discussion is when more than one viewpoint is expressed and Bannanasketch is essentially saying he doesn't want one side included - doesn't want to read it, hear it (and judging by his over the top reactions, he certainly DOESN'T seem to be really "reading" them)
So, I'm tired of hearing that Christians are just discriminitating terrorists who want the entire world to follow us. I'm tired of hearing that we're the bad guys and we are intoxicating society.
...which no one in this thread has done. Bannanasketch seems to have seen something he didn't like and chose to get mad at it before fully reading and trying to understand what it was really saying. So if you're "tired" of hearing this...well you ARE the first person who's actually said anything of this nature here...
I'm tired of coming on MC Forums just to come and put up with this! Therefore, i'm done arguing.
Good. No one else had even started "arguing".
We all have our beliefs but we just can't seem to keep it that way, can we? I will pray for you guys but please stop.
Now that first sentence doesn't even make sense. When has anyone said we can't have our beliefs? Up UNTIL this post, everyone's been very CAREFUL of making distinctions of what they feel while not saying someone who doesn't share the same belief is invalid...that is until "someone" decided to throw out things like "liberal crap"... For someone who wants insults (which hadn't existed) to "please stop", he had no problem starting the inflammatory language.
Bannanasketch, i want to be clear that i'm not trying to "pick on you" as i'm sure that's probably how you're going to feel when you read this. I'm just pointing out that your post was actually the first one to really take an offensive and non-civil tone at the same time you were trying to claim the rest of the discussion was something it wasn't. Heed your own advice.
It appears the way you react to things that you don't agree with is to get angry at them and not take the time to try to fully understand them because it's easier to just be offended at something that was never even there to begin with than to take time to learn about all the various colors of society that can co-exist without false designations of "right" and "wrong". If anger is your first way of reacting to something, then take some time to step away and calm down with a clearer head before responding.
So if you're tired of discussions like this and don't want to read them, then don't. Don't read threads or anything else outside of this forum that may include different views and perspectives that you're incapable of reading without getting mad to the extent that you can't even try to understand what they may be really saying. But be forewarned, if you're just here to enjoy Muppet Fandom...well the Muppets and Jim Henson's messages have historically and consistently been about (and from) people of different backgrounds striving to understand each other and were chockful of the "liberal crap" you don't want to be part of your life experience.
(Stepping back outside and returning everyone to the previously scheduled *discussion*)