The animator of the first episodes....

[Drtooth]

...Toei animation?

now, why am I so amazed by this? I just found this out a few minutes ago.

Toei animation is the studio behind such famous Japanese shows as Kinnikuman, Dragon Ball (all versions) Saint Seyia, right up to One Piece and Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo. They also animated a lot of American shows in the 80's, including G.I. Joe, Transformers, and the first 5 episodes (and some subsequent ones) of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

I will say I'm a bit surprised, since it didn't look like their style, especially at the time they animated it.

The great thing is this helps provide a link between my 3 favorite things. TMNT, Kinnikuman, and Muppets.

 

[GonzoLeaper]

Hmm- that is interesting. The main thing I know Toei for is their lavish 1970s live action Japanese shows (like "Battle Fever J" for instance- which is essentially a Japanese version of Captain America)- basically the forerunners of Power Rangers. I don't really get into watching any of them as such-
but the one I do know is their 1970s live action Spider-Man series!
A very different and interesting take on Marvel's character- I guess they got the licensing from Marvel, but don't expect to see any continuity with the comic books. Although the Spidey costume is actually pretty decent.
And the funny thing is- the Japanese series lasted longer than the American series! The Japanese one went for 41 episodes and it has actually been released in its entirety on DVD! (Along with a Stan Lee interview!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Man_(tokusatsu)

The American version, also made in the late 1970s and a live action show- starring Nicholas Hammond as Peter Parker/Spider-Man, went for 13 episodes (yet pulled off two short-lived seasons, as the episodes ran staggeringly from 1977 to 1979) I remember watching this series some as a child and I enjoy it pretty well. I'd love to see this one come to DVD too.

Okay- well, that was pretty much off-topic from the Muppets, but I guess it is cool to have a Spider-Man and Muppet Babies connection. (Besides the fact that Marvel's Star Comics had both a Muppet Babies and Fraggle Rock comic book running for a while in the '80s, as well as an adaptation of "The Dark Crystal" and I think "Labyrinth"- and definitely "The Muppets Take Manhattan".)

 

[frogboy4]

Does anyone remember the end credits of "Tiny Toons: How I Spent My Summer Vacation"? They rolled twenty seconds or so of obvious Japanese names followed by, "Just kidding" and then rolled the real credits. I love that.

I know that so much animation is completed overseas, but I guess I'm an animation snob. I just don't dig 98% of what comes from Japanese animators in content or style. It just doesn't near the atmosphere of classic Warner Brothers, Disney, Fleischer, Clampett productions that I use to set the mark. Again, animation snob. However, I do find much of the work from Miyazaki and Otomo inspiring, though motivationally confusing to my western sensibilities.

I'm not much of a Muppet Babies cartoon fan, in part, because of the inconsistencies in quality of character movement and proportions that often occur in it, as in many overseas animation. The shrill voice work of Baby Piggy doesn't help either, but that's not the animators' doing.

That said, I hope it someday returns with a new team and better style behind it. I understand the nostalgia many Muppet fans have for the show. I admit to having a little as well. I drew a cast picture in 4th grade (including my version of the Mayhem) that was used by the teacher for a class project.

There's just such a wealth of promise in the Muppet Babies that has gone untapped. The sparks are there, but it could be so much more. The rumored motion-capture puppetry (like Skrumps and Waldo C. Graphic) could be cool if Disney ever pursued it. I hope they do!

Just my unsolicited 2 cents. I'm known around MC as somewhat of a Muppet Babies hater which is untrue. Heck, it was my idea and execution for the Easter banner. Now that I've used Muppet Babies and execution in the same sentence I must stop before getting into more trouble!

 

[Drtooth]

Do

I know that so much animation is completed overseas, but I guess I'm an animation snob. I just don't dig 98% of what comes from Japanese animators in content or style. It just doesn't near the atmosphere of classic Warner Brothers, Disney, Fleischer, Clampett productions that I use to set the mark. Again, animation snob.

Uh.... not to be an animation snob as well, but that pretty much goes for any commercially made animation for tv since the 50's. Not just Japanese. it's pretty much like compairing Beetoven to Liberace...

The one thing I really have for the style is the attention to detail, but there's less motion. With Japanese animation, much like animation all over the globe the theatrical stuff is much much better than the television stuff.

That said, i loved the Japanese animation for American television programs they had back in the 80's, it was a perfect marrage of Western and Eastern styles. Funny thing, they animate BEFORE voice recording, while we animate after the voice recording. Which lead to confusion on some parts. I remember a story of someone at the US recording studio kicking over a waste basket, and the Japanese animators were confused if it was intentional or not. I recall this was about Kid Video.

That said, I think TMS did the most beautiful limited TV animation in the 80's... Insperctor gadget, Heathcliff, and they did a simply fantastic job with Disney, Ducktales and Rescue Rangers. Compair that with the simply ukky looking stuff coming out of Korea today. it's just disgusting looking. Though I gotta admit, the Animation on the new Cureous George cartoons are surprisingly good.

But then again, animation is one thing. It really boils down to story lines. Now, Pochahauntus was a beautifully animated movie and all, but watching it was like having surgery without anesthetic. Now look at the Bullwinkle show. Some of the Worst Mexican animation of all time (though their Hollywood studio did pretty great stuff), but I can't get enough of it.

Saying that, the animation towards the end of the series from Taiwan.... yuck city. They really did a number on Kermit's eyes....

 

[Baby Rowlf]

Voices and stuff

Well, regarding Piggy's voice work, since the adult Piggy isn't exactly quiet and has a falsetto voice, there's no way to have a Baby version without that voice getting higher. Though I adore Frank Oz's rendition of Baby Piggy. Henson's voice for Baby Rowlf was adorable too. Granted, I like what Katie Leigh did, and I always thought that Baby Rowlf's voice sounded the closest to a real child.

But as the series progressed, Baby Rowlf's voice kept getting higher and higher (and the animation got worse, and the background music became all nasty and synthesized, and the personalities got worse and....GAH why couldn't this have been done with the puppets?)

As far as animation, I've always wondered which studio animated the show. It doesn't surprise me regarding the earlier episodes, since the animation and the characters' facial expressions always had an anime-ish look to them (The Case of the Missing Chicken is a perfect example). The later episodes though especially towards the end though, I absolutely HATED, and for the same reasons...inconsistency with proportion and animations. They were very sloppily done.

However, somewhere in the middle of the series' run, the animation company used was a pretty good one. Look at the episodes "By The Book", and "When You Wish Upon a Muppet" to see what I mean. What studio was that?

 

[frogboy4]

Uh.... not to be an animation snob as well, but that pretty much goes for any commercially made animation for tv since the 50's. Not just Japanese. it's pretty much like compairing Beetoven to Liberace...

...TMS did the most beautiful limited TV animation in the 80's... Insperctor gadget, Heathcliff, and they did a simply fantastic job with Disney, Ducktales and Rescue Rangers. Compair that with the simply ukky looking stuff coming out of Korea today. it's just disgusting looking.

...Pochahauntus was a beautifully animated movie and all, but watching it was like having surgery without anesthetic.

...look at the Bullwinkle show. Some of the Worst Mexican animation of all time (though their Hollywood studio did pretty great stuff), but I can't get enough of it.

I wouldn't say all TV animation is done overseas. I do get the process (from the bit of experience I've had and from professionals I've met). I just always thought the Muppets (Babies) deserved much better - especially in the era of Jim Henson. This cheapy-stuff is akin to moving the characters around on popsicle sticks (in my eyes).

I always found it interesting that the classic WB cartoons were done on such a shoestring budget and limited frames-per-second, but still look much better than more expensive, higher frame-rate projects of today.

You're right about Rocky and Bullwinkle. Not only did they transcend the cheapness, they actually incorporated it and made it an asset to the style of the production. Heck, they looked better there than they did in their CG movie.

I despised Pocahontas (and not for the PC reasons others did or the misfortune of casting Mel Gibson as John Smith). It was beautiful but mind-numbingly dull with flat undeveloped characters (writing-wise).

Ducktales is another great exception to the rules. The animation was more impressive than it needed to be and I always appreciated that as a kid.

Now, back to the Muppet Babies. I hope they do something new for them (after the classic grown-up Muppets have a project, of course). Again, I always admired what the show stood for and the unique example it set by way of content.

I do think that if the Babies return there should be a style revamp. No, not Muppet Bratz! Definitely not that. Ugh! But to find a distinct style for an animated series. By the way, do you think that CG live-feed puppetry would be a good way to go with it?

 

[Drtooth]

Actually, I have mixed thoughts about CGI... I do love it as much as I love any other style of animation (the only one I think deserves special treatment is Stop motion/ clay puppet). But I feel it's around to much.

The problem with CGI is that few companies that use it see it as a form of art, and more as a source of revenue. Pixar is the only studio that I think really made it there own. Dreamworks and Blue Sky stuff is alright too, but Pixar runs the happy gammut between cartoonish and realistic.

Not to many people are daring to come up with new stuff in this field. That's why I say if they do make a new series, they SHOULD use WALDO style CGI live feed puppetry. I mean, puppetry and CGI can mingle and co-exist, and it shouldn't replace the other. This would be amazing if they used this, and it would certainly be a step above other CGI stuff on television.

Another thing we do not see enough is Cel Shading, which sadly is designated only to video games.

If more companies like this were innovative, and didn't just use it to be flashy, or because it costs less than 2-D mediums, I'd like CGI a bit more.

 

[Drtooth]

I think this one wa Toei...

If so, this is my favorite Japanese animated sequence aside from the first theme opening

http://youtube.com/watch?v=24dPutxD8r0

 

[Drtooth]

Bump

I'vw also noticed the visuals were a lot more impressive in the music video sequences than in the Akom episodes...

check out this Yellow Submarine inspired number.

Plus, I found influence of this particular company's animation in the explosion of the balloon Pig thing... the very same style of explosion they have in Dr. Slump and Dragon ball.

 

[muppet baby]

Does anyone remember the end credits of "Tiny Toons: How I Spent My Summer Vacation"? They rolled twenty seconds or so of obvious Japanese names followed by, "Just kidding" and then rolled the real credits. I love that.

I know that so much animation is completed overseas, but I guess I'm an animation snob. I just don't dig 98% of what comes from Japanese animators in content or style. It just doesn't near the atmosphere of classic Warner Brothers, Disney, Fleischer, Clampett productions that I use to set the mark. Again, animation snob. However, I do find much of the work from Miyazaki and Otomo inspiring, though motivationally confusing to my western sensibilities.

I'm not much of a Muppet Babies cartoon fan, in part, because of the inconsistencies in quality of character movemenght t and proportions that often occur in it, as in many overseas animation. The shrill voice work of Baby Piggy doesn't help either, but that's not the animators' doing.

That said, I hope it someday returns with a new team and better style behind it. I understand the nostalgia many Muppet fans have for the show. I admit to having a little as well. I drew a cast picture in 4th grade (including my version of the Mayhem) that was used by the teacher for a class project.

There's just such a wealth of promise in the Muppet Babies that has gone untapped. The sparks are there, but it could be so much more. The rumored motion-capture puppetry (like Skrumps and Waldo C. Graphic) could be cool if Disney ever pursued it. I hope they do!

Just my unsolicited 2 cents. I'm known around MC as somewhat of a Muppet Babies hater which is untrue. Heck, it was my idea and execution for the Easter banner. Now that I've used Muppet Babies and execution in the same sentence I must stop before getting into more trouble!

I am a big Muppet Babies fan , but i am really glad that you bought up some of the ponits that you did , about the plot lines and voices because as a teenager i got to see them again on nicalodian i began to see all the ponits that u brought up but in a way i could not stop watching i guess because of like all the fun that it brought to my life .

I am seeing alos as i watch the utube clips when i get a chance .

I do wish that they would bring it back though , as u say with all the ponts that u talked about because of great things that could come out of , and yes we can only hope really love the old muppet babies though that we had , so please for those of u that read this and see that i put muppet baby for my user name don't think that i am trashing my faveroite show and then being a little dingy haha .

i just wanted to see if someone had the same thoughts in the back of there mind .