Sweetums in TMM and GMC

[Vic Romano]

For years and years I thought Sweetums name WAS Jack, ...

I know so many people who thought the same or thought he just went by the name Jack for his role in TMM.

What I'd like to see some info on, is where Sweetums went from a big dumb ogar (TMM, Frog Prince) to a more familiar wise cracking Muppet like in TMS and other movies. He used to talk very monosylabic "Jack not name! Jack job!" to actually laughing and joking and even singing, losing the whole "big dumb monster" personna, but keeping the "no soul would mess with him in broad daylight" personality.

Does anyone know what Sweetums first TMS appearance was and if he was that brutish oaf or intimidating vocalist?

 

[MrsPepper]

Well, I can't really answer you Vic, but I'm just as confused because TMM came out while TMS was still being made. Maybe they assumed everyone knew who Sweetums was? It's kind of a big assumption and I seriously doubt that I knew who he was right away as well.

 

[CensoredAlso]

The Muppet Show aired from 1976 to 1981. The Muppet Movie was released in 1979. So if audiences were regularly keeping up with The Muppet Show, they would have already been familiar with Sweetums. And judging from the 1st season DVD, his persona from the beginning was more the 'intimidating vocalist' rather than the brute.

 

[Vic Romano]

Thanks heralde. I wonder why they devolved him back to the oaf then for TMM?

 

[David French]

Thanks heralde. I wonder why they devolved him back to the oaf then for TMM?

They didn't; remember the Muppets didn't always play "themselves" as per their TMS personas in the films. As for when Sweetums' personality changed, check the episode guide for season one of TMS in this site.

Going back to the original point of this thread - "Mad Man" Mooney is calling out for his "Jack", just like Kermit might call for his "Gofer". The book of the film has a pic of Sweetums running along a highway during the night, which IIRC takes place sometime after Fozzie's car breaks down. Sweetums isn't in the projector room at the start because the end scene implies that he's come out of the film to join the others in Hollywood. Sweetums at the fair isn't meant to be seen earlier either - his line is "I've just gotta catch up with those guys." which implies that he has just missed them.

As for GMC, Sweetums is angry at the traffic jam that has ocurred and goes to try and sort it out...or at least that's the interpretation I have.

 

[minor muppetz]

I don't think they would have invited Mad Man Mooney, he was trying to con them after all. And he was clearly treating Sweetums really bad.

I can't really tell if it was obvious to the other Muppets that Mad Man Mooney was trying to con them. I also can't tell if Sweetums hitting a fly and making it look like a decimal mark was intentional or not (Sweetums kept pointing at the price tag, as the Muppets paid attention, and then he hit the fly, changing the price, but I can't tell whether it was an accident). Now that I think about the Mad Man Mooney scene, Kermit decided that they should trade in the studebaker and Gonzo's car for anothe rcar, and they got a twelve dollar trade-in... Since they were trading in two vehicles, shouldn't there have been a 24 dollar trade-in?

Another thing... I didn't notice until I was 17 that Sweetums changed the price. Somehow whenever I watched that scene I thought that the price actually was $11.15.

 

[minor muppetz]

Going back to the original point of this thread - "Mad Man" Mooney is calling out for his "Jack", just like Kermit might call for his "Gofer". The book of the film has a pic of Sweetums running along a highway during the night, which IIRC takes place sometime after Fozzie's car breaks down.

I don't ever remember seeing Kermit refer to Scooter as "gofer". As for that picture of Sweetums, it is also included in the 1993 release of the soundtrack (well, I'm assuming that it's the same picture). Does the book acknowledge Sweetums chasing after them then, or is the picture just there?

This reminds me of something that I've been wondering for four years... Does the GMC storybook describe the "Hey, a Movie!" or "Couldn't We Ride" numbers, or at least mention the events of what happened?

 

[CensoredAlso]

I can't really tell if it was obvious to the other Muppets that Mad Man Mooney was trying to con them. I also can't tell if Sweetums hitting a fly and making it look like a decimal mark was intentional or not (Sweetums kept pointing at the price tag, as the Muppets paid attention, and then he hit the fly, changing the price, but I can't tell whether it was an accident).

They could tell he was coning them, given their reaction after the "detachable fenders" thing and their glee after the 12 dollar trade in. And the fly thing is a bit awkward but it was intentional. I believe Tough Pigs describes how this scene changed a bit in different versions of the script.

Lol, good point about the 12 v. 24 dollar trade in! I guess Mooney assumed Fozzie's "car" was supposed to have another one on top!

 

[minor muppetz]

I believe Tough Pigs describes how this scene changed a bit in different versions of the script.

It's been awhile since I last read the Tough Pigs anthology on an early draft of the script, but I recall it pointing out that the only significant difference in that scene betweeen the script and the filmed version is the fact that in the script, Sweetums dipped his finger in oil (or maybe something similar) and put the decimal there. I think the Tough Pigs article says something about hitting the fly being accidental.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Hmm, if TP does say the fly thing was accidental in the final film, I don't believe that's correct. I'll check the movie out some time again but I'm pretty sure. The shot of Sweetums actually hitting the fly looks kinda accidental (probably because it's hard to hit a fly exactly where you want it!). But if you watch the entire back and forth exchange between him and the others, it's clearly on purpose. As I said, the scene was filmed a bit awkwardly, especially since there's no dialogue between them.