Steve Whitmire has left the Muppets, Matt Vogel to continue as Kermit

[dwayne1115]

Kermit flying off the handle because someone else (Fozzie, Grover, whoever) is frustrating him is one thing; Kermit screaming about wishing he had never been born in a fit of sorrow and self-loathing (yeah, yeah, I know it's supposed to be a take on IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE) is kinda left field.

Well compared to this I can kind of see your point

 

[Oscarfan]

Kermit's freak out may seem too much, but remember - he lost something he'd be working toward for most of his life and all his friends livelyhoods depended on.

VMX is flawed with all the pop culturey stuff that's totally unnecessary; everything else isn't that bad.

MWOZ gets a slap on the wrist because it amplifies the stuff that didn't work in VMX, despite a lot of the same people working on it. They didn't learn their lesson and turned out a crummy project.

 

[BlakeConor14]

VMX is the first film since 1984 that gives Kermit a lead role. It brings fozzie and piggy back to main characters instead of supporting roles. Scooter returns back to speaking form. Rowlf and the electric mayhem are back. But the Muppet master is right it isn't perfect but compared to the film before it and after it. It's the best we got.

I have to strongly disagree with you there. VMX wasn't amazing, but it brought back some forgotten characters and a good majority of the muppets like Fozzie and Gonzo were in-character after a movie of picking noses and being scared to get their brain sucked out. The songs weren't half-bad either. MOZ is just awful, there's nothing funny or interesting about it.

 

[JimAndFrank]

Kermit's freak out may seem too much, but remember - he lost something he'd be working toward for most of his life....

Holy Henson, does that statement resonate with Steve's situation!

A lot of people seem to find Steve's blogging and speaking out about his dismissal to be a bit much, but remember-he lost something he'd been working towards his entire life. He's spent the last nine months trying to make sense of it all and grasp the concept of a life without his greatest passion. Imagine spending 38 years in your dream career only to be abruptly thrown out of it and left clueless about what to do next. I'm surprised Steve hasn't had a full blown existential crisis as of yet!

 

[DarthGonzo]

This is where I disagree, I felt Kermit's tantrum was really OOC for him, and it's one of the things that kills the movie for me.

What bothers me about the tantrum is that Whitmire doesn't play it with any sense of seriousness or sincerity. It should be a moment where you really feel like Kermit is at his lowest, and while the movie does a decent job leading up to this scene, the actual outburst from Kermit feels so fake. Whitmire could NOT do angry outbursts and rants anywhere near as believably as Jim.

 

[Randall Flagg]

Yeah, one aspect of Jim's Kermit that I missed during Steve's years was his exasperation. The "Comedian's a Bear" sketch (posted on the previous page) is a good example of how funny Kermit could be when he was exasperated. The tantrum in the Christmas special was quite different. That was a psychological meltdown, which isn't really funny (I suppose it could be, if played right, but it's still quite a different thing from just being exasperated with one's co-workers.)

 

[DarthGonzo]

Yeah, one aspect of Jim's Kermit that I missed during Steve's years was his exasperation. The "Comedian's a Bear" sketch (posted on the previous page) is a good example of how funny Kermit could be when he was exasperated. The tantrum in the Christmas special was quite different. That was a psychological meltdown, which isn't really funny (I suppose it could be, if played right, but it's still quite a different thing from just being exasperated with one's co-workers.)

But the thing is, it's clear that Whitmire was TRYING to play it funny (whispering for Daniel to come closer so he could shout at him) but didn't really have the skills to do that.

There's two types of angry Jim Kermit; angry serious Kermit (which was rare, but it happened) and angry funny Kermit. In either case Jim was able to make it work. No matter how Whitmire performed angry Kermit, there was always something kind of lame about it.

 

[D'Snowth]

I think one of the reasons why people don't like MOZ is because they were kind of expecting a tribute to the 1939 movie, rather than going closer to the original L. Frank Baum novels. Again, that's just one reason.

I'll agree the songs from MOZ were pretty forgettable, and by that token, the movie also seemed to be something of a vehicle for Ashanti (who, at least, is a big Muppet fan as Jason Segel was, so that kind of helps). I'll also agree that there were moments from the movie that were memorable, as opposed to the movie as a whole. But at least, with the exception of the nipple joke, the forced adult humor was toned down in comparison to VMX. Plus, David Alan Grier, Queen Latifah, and Jeffrey Tambor are always fun.

 

[Muppet Master]

I think one of the reasons why people don't like MOZ is because they were kind of expecting a tribute to the 1939 movie, rather than going closer to the original L. Frank Baum novels. Again, that's just one reason.

I'll agree the songs from MOZ were pretty forgettable, and by that token, the movie also seemed to be something of a vehicle for Ashanti (who, at least, is a big Muppet fan as Jason Segel was, so that kind of helps). I'll also agree that there were moments from the movie that were memorable, as opposed to the movie as a whole. But at least, with the exception of the nipple joke, the forced adult humor was toned down in comparison to VMX. Plus, David Alan Grier, Queen Latifah, and Jeffrey Tambor are always fun.

Weren't Latifah, Tambor, and Grier just minor characters? Jeffrey Tambor was one of the best parts of Muppets From Space, but his part was really forgettable in this movie. To be honest, I don't remember much about MOZ aside from that it was awful, might have to watch it a second time.

 

[DarthGonzo]

I personally think all the post Jim films got worse with each consecutive release. Treasure Island wasn't as good as Christmas Carol, and MFS was easily worse than either of them. For those who don't simply give Muppet films passing grades for including a lot of older characters, VMX was far below any of the previous theatrical films. Meanwhile KSY and Oz were definitely bottom of the barrel. The BIG upswing was the 2011 film, easily the best full-length Muppet product since Christmas Carol. Muppets Most Wanted, while also better than anything since Christmas Carol, wasn't quite as good. Personally, I think if Disney WAS to make another theatrical film, it would continue the downward slide.