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Steve Whitmire has left the Muppets, Matt Vogel to continue as Kermit

The Count

Staff member
Jul 12, 2002
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Breaking my silence on this...

Some will say the fault lies on this party, and others will say the fault lies with the other party, and as always the truth inevitably lies somewhere in the middle which we will never fully know. All we can do is piece the puzzle together, and your puzzle based on the facts will differ from mine which will differ from anothers.

The point is I'm staying out of this entire conversation out of respect for all parties involved. Don't expect me to show up back in here unless something gets reported which I hate to have to wade through to find and deal with.


Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2010
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The more I hear about all this the more I get the feeling that a lot is not being said. I can't see Steve as the "bad guy" in all this. I just can't.
We are all accustomed to the idea of "good guys" and "bad guys" but in real life they hardly ever exist in such cut-and-dried terms. Situations are complicated. People are complicated. Everybody does a combination of good and bad things. But for some reason, our culture has been driven lately to put people into categories and then ignore or excuse the character traits that don't fit.

Watch what happens when a formerly unknown person is thrust into the spotlight through a news event, and then other details of their lives become public, especially in cases that are initially controversial; for example, a police shooting. Some people take the officer's side, others take the civilian's side. For people who take the cop's side, if they later find out the victim devoted his entire life to poor children, they still try to paint him as a thug. If the cop is shown to be a racist with a history of disciplinary actions, it's just smears from people with a grudge. Then for people who take the victim's side, if it turns out he just shot someone a week before, they still say he was really a sweet guy and the cop was just targeting him. If the cop turns out to spend all of his free time helping homeless youth, he's probably just using them as informants so he can target people. People avoid cognitive dissonance by throwing out evidence that doesn't fit their internal verdict.

The same thing is happening here, and it needn't.

Steve isn't perfect. Jim wasn't perfect. The Hensons aren't perfect, and the Disney execs aren't perfect. But none of them are all-evil-all-the-time, either. It's entirely possible that all the claims about Steve are true, but even if they are it doesn't mean that he was a terrible performer, that he was a cruel human being, or that he didn't care deeply about the characters and the fans. It's also entirely possible that the Hensons are holding a grudge and Disney was out to get Steve for petty reasons. But that doesn't mean that he is faultless, or that he never acted unprofessionally or made unreasonable demands.

Steve isn't a "good guy" or a "bad guy." He's just a guy. The same goes for all other players in this situation.

Take in all of the information. Consider the possibility that each piece could be true. Try to put together the most likely picture of events, not the one that you like most. You don't have to come out of it hating anyone, and you don't have to "take sides." Whoever is to blame doesn't have to be a "bad guy."

i would really like to hear all of the Muppet performer's thoughts on this, i really hope that they come forward soon, and tell their thoughts on this.
I would love to hear from them. But it will probably never happen - at least not until they retire. And it's probably for the best.


Well-Known Member
Mar 18, 2013
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Putting death aside, that year was just a disaster for many reasons.

Well, looks like we aren't getting a video today. Bummer.
I actually thought 2016 was a fantastic year.

So when the thought of the week was pushed from Monday to today, where was that reported? Because I didn't see it anywhere but in these forums. Can we reach out to that same source and find out what the deal is? I just posted on the official Muppets facebook page and tweeted at them. I want to see the darn thing.