Steve Whitmire has left the Muppets, Matt Vogel to continue as Kermit

[CensoredAlso]

I think that's a logical fallacy

Try hearing that in Kermit's voice.

 

[Muppet Master]

Ironically, Rick Lyon is also rumored to have been fired from Sesame Street for being a bit of a loose canon and comes off similarly bitter. So there's that.

Here is a question though? Why the blind support for Steve?

Even with what we are reading, why not admit that we might know the guy beneath the puppet like we think we do. He wasn't Kermit. He's just a guy. Meanwhile, we completely discount or are angered at what Disney or the Henson's are trying to get across. Someone said that they would prefer that the Henson's simply call it creative differences and leave it at that. How can they do that or just sit back while Steve has started a blog, is doing interviews, etc. where he is creating a narrative that fails to tell the whole story?

As fans, maybe it's just hard to admit that the guy we look up to isn't perfect and may not be what we expect. He literally kept the character from showing up when he was supposed to. He may have put down his coworkers and kept some from performing at all. Even if well intentioned, he may not have gone about it with tact.

Also, enough with the "I can't imagine anybody but Steve as Kermit." outrage already. Do you realize how ridiculous that might sound to those of us who were alive in the 70's and 80's and earlier? You'll adjust. In fact, the characters depend on it.

I also don't think we should blindly support anyone with the henson last name.

And I'm pretty sure mostly everyone is in full support of Matt.

 

[MrBloogarFoobly]

^Exactly. Regardless of what people like or dislike, Matt Vogel - who is outrageously talented - is now Kermit.

 

[D'Snowth]

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm sure Shane can probably confirm this, but didn't STREET GANG mention that an unspecified Muppet Performer was fired from SST for not really being a team player, and that said performer went on to create AVENUE Q in retaliation as a "take that" jab, while still paying homage to the show? Wouldn't said unspecified performer be Rick? I know he had a lot to do with its inception in terms of designing and building the puppets for the original Broadway run.

EDIT: Never mind, I found my copy and looked it up. It does specify that Rick was "bounced" from working on SST, but it doesn't explicitly said he was fired for any specific reason, but that he along with Jeff Marx pretty much used AVENUE Q as a way of letting off steam over the situation.

 

[Old Thunder]

Just a minor observation from me, but given that I never really paid that much attention to the puppeteers and stuff (explanation being I'm something of a 'casual' fan, in other words I love the Muppets to death but I'm nowhere near as big on them as most of you guys are), while I'm just as confused about the whole situation as anyone else, I can still go out and enjoy the Muppets and everything else Steve helped make instead of being all, "The guy was a d***, can I still love this?" as a lot of people.

Just a minor observation.

 

[Muppet Master]

Just a minor observation from me, but given that I never really paid that much attention to the puppeteers and stuff (explanation being I'm something of a 'casual' fan, in other words I love the Muppets to death but I'm nowhere near as big on them as most of you guys are), while I'm just as confused about the whole situation as anyone else, I can still go out and enjoy the Muppets and everything else Steve helped make instead of being all, "The guy was a d***, can I still love this?" as a lot of people.

Just a minor observation.

I think you just answered your own question. If you didn't pay much attention to the puppeteers, it wouldn't matter much. I read Jim's bio and learned a lot about Steve and I almost felt like I was alongside them. I always imagined that the performers and everyone got along harmoniously, so it's a bit jarring to see the Henson children throw attacks at Steve and for all this turmoil to occur.

 

[Old Thunder]

I think you just answered your own question. If you didn't pay much attention to the puppeteers, it wouldn't matter much. I read Jim's bio and learned a lot about Steve and I almost felt like I was alongside them. I always imagined that the performers and everyone got along harmoniously, so it's a bit jarring to see the Henson children throw attacks at Steve and for all this turmoil to occur.

Actually that wasn't intended as a question, just, like I said, a minor observation.

 

[JimAndFrank]

Look, I know I said that I was going to step out of the fandom for a while until this all cools down, but I feel the need to throw in my final two cents before I do so.

Most of you know that I have been one of Steve's loudest fans for the past 5 years. As you can imagine, watching him getting thrown under the bus by Disney and the Henson's has been somewhat of a nightmare, but that doesn't mean I have simply brushed aside the allegations made against him.

Quite frankly, this entire thing has been a three-way colossal f**k-up from the get go.

I really don’t have much to say in regards to the Henson’s. It’s understandable that they might find it insulting that Steve thinks he knew Jim enough to warrant being an authority on the Muppets. Cheryl Henson’s Facebook tantrum is a common response people have to hearing something frustrating. I’ve done that a couple of times myself. As for Brian and Lisa, again, I see where they’re coming from, but they had every chance to amend the ‘issues’ and didn’t do crap about it.

That’s the same attitude I currently have towards Disney. If Steve has been acting up so much, what was stopping them from dropping him earlier? They had 12 years to find a middle ground with Steve and the other performers. Believe it or not, there are other performers who feel the exact same way Steve does about the Muppets in their current state. One I’ve been talking to maintains that Steve was in the right and that his dismissal could have been avoided with some compromising and an attitude adjustment from both parties.

As for Steve, you never know what is going to bring out the worst in people, and apparently taking on Kermit gave Steve a major ego boost that lead to tactlessness and abrasiveness when it came to the business side of things. He's apparently left many angry and bitter people in his wake as he endeavoured in his vision to keep Jim's legacy alive.

But does this make Steve a horrible person? No. It doesn't.

Ignorance doesn't always equal consciously hurting others.

Steve is ignorant to the damage he caused. Just go back and read his current blog posts and the interviews he's done so far. The only reason he is stunned by his dismissal is because he never recognised what he was doing to his peers and the higher-ups. I believe that Steve believes he's been doing the right thing all along and that one day reality is going to come along and smack him across the face.

I've been fluctuating on my position as a Whitmire fan, but after careful consideration, I've decided to stick by him. I've accepted that he'll never come back to the Muppets and am just looking forward to seeing what he decides to do in the future. Regardless of everything else, he’s an insanely talented puppeteer among other things. Everyone deserves a second chance and the option to redeem oneself going onward into the future is not closed to him.

If the responses to his dismissal tells us anything, it’s that Steve always tried to be the best he could be to the fans. So many people have come forward and shared their stories of how accommodating Steve was and how he wanted to help their up-close-and-personal experience with The Muppets be as wonderful as possible. Steve’s not a terrible person, just blindsided by his own vision.

At the end of the day, just like everyone else, I just want to watch the next Muppet Thought of the Week and get the big Kermit reveal over and done with. Like I keep saying, I wish Matt Vogel all the luck in the world and I know he’ll do us proud. In the end, it's the Muppets that truly matter as it is they who brought us all together in the first place.

I’ll see ya’ll again in September.

 

[rocketdave]

Ever since I first listened to the Avenue Q soundtrack, I thought Rick Lyon sounded uncannily like Ernie and that he'd make a great Kermit, but now that I've seen him actually doing Kermit on Colbert, I'm less sure of that earlier opinion. I can't fault his puppeteering abilities, but the voice was more off than I imagined it would be (plus I can't help imagining that agreeing to do a bit like that might possibly hurt his chances of officially working with the Muppets again).

I admit that I'm very curious to see Matt Vogel's take on the character. I feel a little like I do when they change lead actors on Doctor Who: sad to see the current Doctor go, but optimistic/excited for a fresh interpretation.

 

[ErinAardvark]

That’s the same attitude I currently have towards Disney. If Steve has been acting up so much, what was stopping them from dropping him earlier? They had 12 years find a middle ground with Steve and the other performers. Believe it or not, there are other performers who feel the exact same way Steve does about the Muppets in their current state. One I’ve been talking to maintains that Steve was in the right and that his dismissal could have been avoided with some compromising and an attitude adjustment from both parties.

I'm in agreement with that one. Thank you, JimAndFrank. After talking this over with my mom and my sister (the latter telling me that EVERYONE, even celebrities, have their flaws), and now reading this post, I now feel a little better over the situation. Even though it's a lot of he said/she said, I think there were issues on both sides, and they weren't handled well.