Steve Whitmire has left the Muppets, Matt Vogel to continue as Kermit

[dwayne1115]

This is a joke, right? There's no logic behind believing the Henson family was paid to make their remarks.

I firmly stand on that belief. I don't have solid concrete evidence, but I do believe they where paid off!

 

[Censored]

I firmly stand on that belief. I don't have solid concrete evidence, but I do believe they where paid off!

 

[MuppetsRule]

I firmly stand on that belief. I don't have solid concrete evidence, but I do believe they where paid off!

Well, I believe that aliens live among us and are controlling our every thought. I don't have concrete evidence but I believe it so it must be true.

 

[Oscarfan]

I firmly stand on that belief. I don't have solid concrete evidence, but I do believe they where paid off!

Alright then. Let's try to apply "logic and reason" to your evidence.

Easy! How else do you explain them allowing Kermit in the new realease of Emit Oter?

Oh, you mean the remastered edit? That aired in 2015, a year before Steve was let go from Disney?

Or how they suddenly have financial backing to produce Happy Times Murder? They got to be getting money from somewhere! Now your turn fact me up come on I dare ya!

Gee whiz, I guess the fact that it's being co-produced, therefore co-funded, by another production company doesn't factor into it at all.

Facetiousness aside, you honestly think if Disney had paid them off, it would've been enough money to produce a feature film?

 

[ErinAardvark]

Oh brother, here we go again.

 

[Censored]

Look! He was paid off! Here's proof! Where did this money come from?? Oh, wait...this might have been a few years before Steve got fired...

 

[xSunnyEclipse]

We can argue this all we want, but in the end, no one is right or wrong.

What's done is done and I've learned to accept that.

Even if I still don't agree with the Hensons or Disney on their decision, there was some reason to do it. Not just "oh if we pay the Hensons so they can get money for their movie, they'll agree to fire Steve." I honestly don't believe The Hensons would do that...

 

[Muppetboy09]

Alright. I'm going to write a post that should make everyone happy, from those far on Matt's side like Censored, and those that are far on Steve's side.

Alright, I'm going to address Censored first. Let me start off by saying I do not want to get into a war of words, where you and I disagree until the end of time. I want us to find a middle ground. We can all agree that the 2015 series wasn't perfect. Some might even say a complete failure. One of the major complaints about the show was that the Muppets were "too adult". Many of us can agree that it wasn't much edgier than Henson era productions, but edgier than a typical Disney production. I know another complaint was the format just didn't feel right for the Muppets. Some liked the mockumentary style, while others reminisced about the classic Muppet Show variety format. Now I know one of your arguments might be that people "didn't like Steve's Kermit". Obviously, we can't jump into the minds of others, we are left to our own opinions. For those reasons, I'm not going to argue to that point. I'm also going to point out that Steve was not a writer. He has even said that he tried to get the writers to change things, like Kermit lying to Robin, but they wouldn't budge. To me, that kind of makes me lean toward the writing not being a Steve problem. But I digress.

The main takeaway is that ratings tanked. It started off with a bang, and very quickly dwindled to a small audience. Based on those ratings, it would make sense to not renew the show. Even if we think it was getting better near the end, most people aren't going to give it a second chance. They are going to take their pre-conceived notion that they did not enjoy the show, so why waste another 30 minutes watching it. The audience, at the time, didn't know of any drama happening behind the scenes, so the reason they stopped watching was for one of the reasons above. I personally believe that if they did the exact same show but with Matt as Kermit (I'm talking go back in time, Steve doesn't exist anymore), it would go through the same issues, due to Steve's lack of control over story based elements. And I have a gut feeling I am going to get a response from you disagreeing on all my points, and I welcome that, but I am really trying to find a middle ground here, so that everyone can see eye to eye. I just ask that you take these points into consideration, because I would genuinely like to hear your perspective on things (I'm not being sarcastic)

Alright, Dwayne...What? I am by no means team "SCREW STEVE ALL HAIL MATT", but really? You said that you aren't "blindly following" anyone, and then proceeded to spout a bunch of lies in support of someone you don't personally know. I won't jump into it that much, because Oscar fan covered all the main points above, but you really shouldn't be so quick to bash Disney and the Henson family. We don't know the full story, and most likely never will. I don't believe anyone is outright lying, it's just different takes on events from different people. You say "I don't have solid concrete evidence, but I do believe they were paid off!". Well, Censored has the opinion that Steve was just an all around jerk. While they don't have "solid concrete evidence", it is what they believe. Then who is right? You can't both be right. You are both just going to keep shouting at each other until one of you wins (neither of you will). I don't think Steve was the evil person that Censored is painting him as, but I also don't think he was the angelic spirit that you paint him as. Nobody is perfect. Everyone has their flaws, and we have to accept that.

In conclusion, there were MANY contributing factors to the cancellation of the 2015 show, and I think we can all agree that no matter how much die-hard fans enjoyed it, it just wasn't the right kind of show for the casual viewer. In terms of trying a "new TV show" with Matt, I would say hold off. They just found success in live shows, one that could bring the brand around the globe, bringing the joy of the Muppets to people like you and me. Do I think there should be another TV show in the future? Of course! I just think right now, the public has shown interest in live shows, so Disney should really take advantage of this amazing opportunity. I really hope that this post can clear up any harsh feelings between the two sides, because I have really tried to stay as unbiased as possible.

Now please, can we return to civil discussion?

 

[JimAndFrank]

Alright. I'm going to write a post that should make everyone happy, from those far on Matt's side like Censored, and those that are far on Steve's side.

Alright, I'm going to address Censored first. Let me start off by saying I do not want to get into a war of words, where you and I disagree until the end of time. I want us to find a middle ground. We can all agree that the 2015 series wasn't perfect. Some might even say a complete failure. One of the major complaints about the show was that the Muppets were "too adult". Many of us can agree that it wasn't much edgier than Henson era productions, but edgier than a typical Disney production. I know another complaint was the format just didn't feel right for the Muppets. Some liked the mockumentary style, while others reminisced about the classic Muppet Show variety format. Now I know one of your arguments might be that people "didn't like Steve's Kermit". Obviously, we can't jump into the minds of others, we are left to our own opinions. For those reasons, I'm not going to argue to that point. I'm also going to point out that Steve was not a writer. He has even said that he tried to get the writers to change things, like Kermit lying to Robin, but they wouldn't budge. To me, that kind of makes me lean toward the writing not being a Steve problem. But I digress.

The main takeaway is that ratings tanked. It started off with a bang, and very quickly dwindled to a small audience. Based on those ratings, it would make sense to not renew the show. Even if we think it was getting better near the end, most people aren't going to give it a second chance. They are going to take their pre-conceived notion that they did not enjoy the show, so why waste another 30 minutes watching it. The audience, at the time, didn't know of any drama happening behind the scenes, so the reason they stopped watching was for one of the reasons above. I personally believe that if they did the exact same show but with Matt as Kermit (I'm talking go back in time, Steve doesn't exist anymore), it would go through the same issues, due to Steve's lack of control over story based elements. And I have a gut feeling I am going to get a response from you disagreeing on all my points, and I welcome that, but I am really trying to find a middle ground here, so that everyone can see eye to eye. I just ask that you take these points into consideration, because I would genuinely like to hear your perspective on things (I'm not being sarcastic)

Alright, Dwayne...What? I am by no means team "SCREW STEVE ALL HAIL MATT", but really? You said that you aren't "blindly following" anyone, and then proceeded to spout a bunch of lies in support of someone you don't personally know. I won't jump into it that much, because Oscar fan covered all the main points above, but you really shouldn't be so quick to bash Disney and the Henson family. We don't know the full story, and most likely never will. I don't believe anyone is outright lying, it's just different takes on events from different people. You say "I don't have solid concrete evidence, but I do believe they were paid off!". Well, Censored has the opinion that Steve was just an all around jerk. While they don't have "solid concrete evidence", it is what they believe. Then who is right? You can't both be right. You are both just going to keep shouting at each other until one of you wins (neither of you will). I don't think Steve was the evil person that Censored is painting him as, but I also don't think he was the angelic spirit that you paint him as. Nobody is perfect. Everyone has their flaws, and we have to accept that.

In conclusion, there were MANY contributing factors to the cancellation of the 2015 show, and I think we can all agree that no matter how much die-hard fans enjoyed it, it just wasn't the right kind of show for the casual viewer. In terms of trying a "new TV show" with Matt, I would say hold off. They just found success in live shows, one that could bring the brand around the globe, bringing the joy of the Muppets to people like you and me. Do I think there should be another TV show in the future? Of course! I just think right now, the public has shown interest in live shows, so Disney should really take advantage of this amazing opportunity. I really hope that this post can clear up any harsh feelings between the two sides, because I have really tried to stay as unbiased as possible.

Now please, can we return to civil discuyssion?

Hear, hear! Especially on the TV show stuff!

As for the Debacle, my conclusions are thus: Steve is not an angel nor is he a demon-Steve is human. The Muppets Studio executives are human and so are the Henson's. Humans can make mistakes, say things without thinking twice and take things the wrong way. As far as I'm concerned, all three parties are at fault in one way or another.

What's done is done and it's time to move on. Even I have to admit that.

 

[BlakeConor14]

What a Hero. I agree so your blaming Steve for the failure of the MUPPETS so why aren't you blaming him for the box office failure of Muppets most wanted then.... Because neither we're his fault.

I'm not blindly following anyone! Give me proof other than the small tid bits of crap Disney spewd out to cover there own butts, or the other crap the Henson kids where paid to say. If you and your other Disney wannabe cronies come up with some actual proof that the show failed due to Steve, then I'll be the first to admit I was wrong. Im flat out sick and tired of you and everyone else trying to blame all the Muppets failure on Steve! The problems are not Steve at all, but are the people with this warped mindset to make the Muppets something they where never supposed to be.