Steve Whitmire has left the Muppets, Matt Vogel to continue as Kermit

CensoredAlso

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If it really is Steve's fault that Kermit's personality has suffered all these years, then I guess that makes sense after all. I mean, I guess it was Jerry Nelson's fault that Snuffy was a terrible character up until the 80s, likewise it was Brian Meehl's fault Telly was even worse: both characters were always so depressed and whiney all the time, and what fun is that? Once Marty Robinson took over both characters, they suddenly had emotional range, and could really be fun and entertaining characters.
Personal taste of course but I adored Brian Muehl's Telly and his weird friendship with Oscar, lol. :grouchy:

Marty Robinson is definitely the definitive Snuffy for me, but to be fair to Jerry Nelson, he was part of that very touching moment when Big Bird realizes Snuffy is real because of his tears, can't beat that. :wisdom:
 
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D'Snowth

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Even Marty's Telly had that friendship with Oscar for a while before Baby Bear became more and more of a major character. Heck, his official character bio up till the late 90s said that he considered Oscar his best friend.
 

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Even Marty's Telly had that friendship with Oscar for a while before Baby Bear became more and more of a major character. Heck, his official character bio up till the late 90s said that he considered Oscar his best friend.
Oh absolutely and to Marty's credit it took me awhile to realize Telly's puppeteer had changed.
 

D'Snowth

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I think that's another example of what's already been discussed in this thread before: often times whenever a new performer takes on an already-established character, they start out as nothing more than imitations of the previous performer, before they start making the characters their own. Marty's first couple of seasons as Telly he tries to give him that same kind of neurotic twang that Brian had, and likewise, he tried to give Snuffy the same kind of soft, emotionless voice that Jerry had. Over the years, both characters took on so much more life and emotional range that the characters became dynamite - even Joey Mazzarino can't figure out why kids don't like Telly more than they do, despite all the writing they've done for him.

Getting back on topic, here's another reason why Kermit's "bitterness" and "depression" can't all be blamed on Steve: many writers are notorious for not letting actors and performers change or deviate away from the script, and said actors and performers can and will attest to that. Even in cartoons; Pat Fraley and James "Uncle Phil" Avery have said in the first couple of seasons of the 80s Ninja Turtles cartoon, the voices were given a little more freedom to ad-lib during recording sessions, but afterwards when the series became a solid hit, suddenly the writers got very strict in making sure they all stuck to the script, up to a point the voice actors would beg to get in a least one ad-lib from time to time. A lot of single camera shows (as THE MUPPETS (2015) was) are like this too; multi-cam shows in front of audiences are a little less strict about it, much like the 70s version of THE ODD COUPLE, where Tony Randall and Jack Klugman's performers were very similar to Jim and Frank as Ernie and Bert, in that they would often do the scenes and play off of each other in their own way. So again, if Kermit has come across as "too bitter," and "too depressed," I think most of that blame has to go to the writers - because again, Disney won't bring in actual Muppet writers, who could have probably written Kermit differently.
 

scooterfan360

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I think that's another example of what's already been discussed in this thread before: often times whenever a new performer takes on an already-established character, they start out as nothing more than imitations of the previous performer, before they start making the characters their own. Marty's first couple of seasons as Telly he tries to give him that same kind of neurotic twang that Brian had, and likewise, he tried to give Snuffy the same kind of soft, emotionless voice that Jerry had. Over the years, both characters took on so much more life and emotional range that the characters became dynamite - even Joey Mazzarino can't figure out why kids don't like Telly more than they do, despite all the writing they've done for him.

Getting back on topic, here's another reason why Kermit's "bitterness" and "depression" can't all be blamed on Steve: many writers are notorious for not letting actors and performers change or deviate away from the script, and said actors and performers can and will attest to that. Even in cartoons; Pat Fraley and James "Uncle Phil" Avery have said in the first couple of seasons of the 80s Ninja Turtles cartoon, the voices were given a little more freedom to ad-lib during recording sessions, but afterwards when the series became a solid hit, suddenly the writers got very strict in making sure they all stuck to the script, up to a point the voice actors would beg to get in a least one ad-lib from time to time. A lot of single camera shows (as THE MUPPETS (2015) was) are like this too; multi-cam shows in front of audiences are a little less strict about it, much like the 70s version of THE ODD COUPLE, where Tony Randall and Jack Klugman's performers were very similar to Jim and Frank as Ernie and Bert, in that they would often do the scenes and play off of each other in their own way. So again, if Kermit has come across as "too bitter," and "too depressed," I think most of that blame has to go to the writers - because again, Disney won't bring in actual Muppet writers, who could have probably written Kermit differently.
you said it right there, keyword, the writers, Steve was just acting out how Kermit was written in the scripts.
 

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you said it right there, keyword, the writers, Steve was just acting out how Kermit was written in the scripts.
Sometimes it can be a combination of the scripts that are written and how the performer chooses to say them. The same things can be said in many different ways. On some TV shows, they used the same pilot script with different actors until they found the ones that recited the lines the best way.
 

beaker

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The blindly anti Steve/Pro Disney crowd, tiny as they may be, can't seem to make up their mind.

> Steve performed Kermit as mean spirited, angry and bitter on the new tv show
> Steve had no creative or writing input

So...wouldn't Steve's portrayal of Kermit fall back to writing staff and Disney execs? The timeline of Steve's firing seems to directly correlate with the cancellation of the ABC Muppets series and then the summer turnabout where the axe is spared or dropped on new series.
 

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Sylinde Bren

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I've written an open letter to my fellow Muppet fans about the last few weeks if anyone is interested. I certainly hope you are. So much of this comes from the heart.

https://justforthehalibutblog.wordpress.com/2017/07/27/a-muppet-fans-dilemma-an-open-letter-to-my-fandom/
Brava! I both applaud and agree with everything you have said in your letter, Marni!

Like you, I will never stop fighting for Steve and the integrity of the Muppets. I also echo your hope that Steve starts a Youtube channel; that would be incredible. But I know that whatever he chooses to do going forward, I will support him 100%.
 
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