Steve Whitmire has left the Muppets, Matt Vogel to continue as Kermit

scooterfan360

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I know I said Jim could never fire anyone except for Diana Birkenfield over creative differences, however, I just remembered that Michael Earl was fired from SST as well because Jon Stone said he "didn't take direction well."
really ?
 

beaker

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Saw on CNN tonight a new interview with Steve. In the video Steve says his firing is the worst thing that could happen to Kermit. That he can refute all the claims against him people are making, and that he feels if it jumps around the screen saying catch phrases that Disney thinks it will fool most of the public. Gotta say, loving Steve going more hardcore. Also good to see not only are the majority of comments on videos/blogs/forums/social media pro Steve but that we are having an effect. Look how Disney is afraid to debut their new DoppelKermit.
http://www.cnn.com/videos/celebrities/2017/07/25/muppet-ex-kermit-the-frog-puppeteer-speaks-holmes-pkg.cnn
 

JimAndFrank

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I know I said I was going to step out of the fandom for 9 weeks and that's exactly what I've done...

HOWEVER.....

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? FIVE YEARS I'VE BEEN IN THIS FANDOM-

5 YEARS I'VE BEEN CAMPAIGNING FOR STEVE TO BE INTERVIEWED AS HIMSELF ON AUSTRALIAN TELEVISION ABOUT HIS CAREER AND IT TOOK THIS HORRIBLE FROG CRAP OF A DEBACLE FOR IT FINALLY HAPPEN!!!

ARE. YOU. KIDDING. ME.

*PANTS IN EXASPERATION*
...........
.............

But seriously, you should check this out. :smile:

https://au.tv.yahoo.com/the-morning-show/video/watch/36501274/steve-whitmire-speaks-after-being-dumped-as-the-voice-of-kermit/#page1
 

CBPuppets

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And this is yet another reason why Sid & Marty Krofft was able to get more done than Jim: they knew how to sell a show; they didn't bother to write treatments, outlines, drafts, scripts, etc. Instead, they created "bibles" full of conceptual artwork of the characters and settings, and the whole premise of the show was spelled out as you turned the pages. This is why people need to actually see what it is they're taking a chance on, particularly when it's something "out there" and different
That may be true but everyone has their own way of doing things
 

Greenhoodie

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Perhaps. It's a fine line, one that Jerry Juhl and a rare few like him walk very well. That's why I think it would have been so amazing if Steve Whitmire, instead of being dismissed, would have been hired on as a creative consultant/producer as he was told he would be. He knows the characters as they truly are, as well as the very exact formula to create Muppet gold.
I think someone else touched on this, but there has been no confirmation that this was ever going to happen. It sounds like something he had proposed or wanted, but that's kind of all we know. Something to consider, Steve has never had any creative role in the Muppets beyond being a performer. Meanwhile, even newer guys like Bill, Joey, and even Matt, etc. are directing, puppet coordinating, writing, producing etc. Something that has rubbed me the wrong way is that Steve's blog presents himself as the only guy who can fix things. That's insane.

As to the idea that he knows the characters as they truly are, as well as the very exact formula to create Muppet gold, does he really? Steve joined in season 3 of the show. He had one and half characters, Lips and Rizzo (I count Rizzo as half because he didn't have much of a personality until MTM). Other than that he was in 3 movies in the Jim era, with only one of them really utilizing any of his characters. Waldo and Bean if you consider Muppets 3-D, which I feel was Jim trying to give him more characters. Post Jim, he had a very questionable Kermit for several years before finally locking it in on something more acceptable...but still a pretty different character. Again, he did a lot with Rizzo, and added a few new characters, as well as being the recast for several others, but there are a lot of projects post Jim that weren't exactly knocking it out of the park. Where was his Muppet gold then?
 

Greenhoodie

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First of all, welcome Greenhoodie. It's certainly encouraging to have more 18+ mature posters on here(no offense to the kids! Just, sometimes it's good to see perspectives from long time fans)

And I bring that up because it's strange that if this massive discord had been going on with Steve and his colleagues/management, that less than two years ago things (at least outwardly) seemed so harmonious.

On the issue of recasts, I'm still blown away with how eerily good Eric Jacobson is with Frank Oz characters. There's no part of me that watches those characters and thinks its just an impersonation or is taken out of the moment. I feel like Rudman really came into his own with the revival of Scooter, same with Baretta's Rowlf.
And while I do feel like there is some room for tweaking/evolving with Matt's Big Bird and The Count, Vogel has shown he's a perfect Sesame recast choice and more than earned his place as a veteran in two decades. Which is to say, logically it wasn't a blind straw decision to give Kermit to Vogel. However it just feels weird politically given the whole situation.
First off, thanks for the welcome. It's a bit more of a welcome back. :smile: Also, I love what you say about fandoms. Spot on.

Where I disagree a bit is the more speculation. Steve and Debbie certainly seem harmonious in public appearances, but we never know what was going on in emails or behind the scenes. It's' obviously far more complicated than we know.

I think it's natural to feel that it's weird. Because it is. No other original performer, or even any of the major new guys has been straight up fired from the Muppets. This was someone playing the literal main character and face of the brand. That doesn't just happen for no reason. He lost his job as Ernie as well. There has to be more going on than either side is revealing. Even if Steve meant well in his intentions, we don't know how those intentions were delivered.

We also don't know what contract negotiations were like. What we do know is that there are multiple performances and appearances over the past years where some or all of the Muppets show up and sing and speak, except for Kermit and Steve's other characters. Again, all of the other guys were there, doing the job they were payed to do, keeping the Muppets moving. With no Kermit in sight. That doesn't strike you as odd at all?

I love the guy and his work, but something doesn't add up from his side either. I'm not team Steve. I'm not team Disney. I'm team Kermit.
 

D'Snowth

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If it really is Steve's fault that Kermit's personality has suffered all these years, then I guess that makes sense after all. I mean, I guess it was Jerry Nelson's fault that Snuffy was a terrible character up until the 80s, likewise it was Brian Meehl's fault Telly was even worse: both characters were always so depressed and whiney all the time, and what fun is that? Once Marty Robinson took over both characters, they suddenly had emotional range, and could really be fun and entertaining characters.
 
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