Sorry about complaint

[dwayne1115]

I think your right about talent but you have to give Asnta credit i think it was her frist movie. She aint no will smith though some singers are just mean to sing or rap i gusse. i really think though the main problem is creativity. there is no reall creativity now a days. The main thing i was really mad was i dint think there where any reall advancements in the art of puppetering. then i was looking at the very creative way that the creatue shop did on the muppets and wow that was really good. so there is a small bit of creativity but they could have tryied to push the envolope i think

 

[Philip Kippel]

I'll have one Mouse-burger with cheese, please.

Please stop mocking Disney, MC people! It's not funny anymore and you know it!

I don't feel as comfortable coming here now because of all of you constantly saying nothing but bad things about Disney and not coming up with more rational things to say without being so critical.

As for you, Fozzie Bear, I liked you better when you were optimistic.

 

[spcglider]

Have we discussed the idea that The Muppets (in a global sense) are more like the crew of Saturday Night Live than like The Looney Toons?

For those of us who remember, it was pretty sad when all the old guard moved off of SNL. Chevy Chase, Dan Ackroyd, Gilda Radner, etc. And they were replaced by a bunch of "no talent comedy losers". Again and again and again. And if you ask anybody who watched SNL during the 1990's who their fave cast was, they'd say something completely different than somebody who watches it today or watched it in the 1980's.

I don't think there's NO merit for the new Muppet characters... Pepe, Johnny Fiama, Sal Minilla, Bobo the Bear, Mr. Poodlepants, Phil VanNeuter, etc etc. I just think they are the next generation of characters. Vital characters that we need to allow to entertain us the way that the old characters did when they were vital. That's just the nature of the performers under the puppets. Enjoy them NOW, cuz they won't be with us forever. We may not EVER get the same warm fuzzies off of Kermit or Staler and Waldorf or Janice or Sweetums or Scooter ever again... we have to accept that. The people who originated them are gone from here. So I suggest we enjoy Pepe, johnny, et. al. while we can in their purest forms.

This, of course, is completely outside of the question of whether or not (in our estimation) Disney Co. is doing a good job of sterwarding the Muppet property.

 

[CensoredAlso]

We may not EVER get the same warm fuzzies off of Kermit or Staler and Waldorf or Janice or Sweetums or Scooter ever again... we have to accept that. The people who originated them are gone from here. So I suggest we enjoy Pepe, johnny, et. al. while we can in their purest forms.

Well that is one option, and if anyone wants to do that, that's fine. Personally, I enjoy sticking with the classic material that we already have. I mean, they're the reason I post on this board in this first place. Not that all the new characters are bad, but I don't need to grasp at them.

 

[SarahOnBway]

We may not EVER get the same warm fuzzies off of Kermit or Staler and Waldorf or Janice or Sweetums or Scooter ever again... we have to accept that. The people who originated them are gone from here. So I suggest we enjoy Pepe, johnny, et. al. while we can in their purest forms.

Wow. I hope I'm not alone when I say that I a) never got warm *fuzzies* off of Statler and Waldorf in the first place (teehee) and b) have gotten and continue to get warm fuzzies from Kermit, just as much as before Steve took over. I mean, please. Christmas Carol? Very Merry? The goodbye to Gonzo scene in MFS? They all gave me the warm fuzzies. Not so much with WoO, but that's no more Steve's fault than it is the Man in the Moon's; that's the fault of the writing.

I agree with what Dwayne said--we have to accept that a good number of original Muppeteers have left the Muppets permanently. Jim Henson, God Bless him, has been dead for seventeen years--seventeen years! That's an awful long time to still be in the denial stage of mourning. It was a tragedy and he shouldn't have had to die, but it happened. And I guaruntee you that Jim Henson would not, under any circumstance, have wanted his characters, and especially Kermit, to cease to exist after he passed away. He would want them not only to continue to "live", but to continue to grow. He would not wanted anyone to have just done an impression of him doing Kermit for umpteen years--he would have wanted someone who could make the character his own.

It really upsets me when around here when I see such disparaging remarks about things we can't change. It's one thing to rag on WoO or KSY, I know I do it enough, but to continually have a pessimistic outlook on everything... I don't know, it just drives me crazy. Losing Jim and Richard was a tragedy; being without Frank and Jerry is both unfortunate and terrible, but the world survives, and so do the Muppets. That's the great thing about these personalities--they carry on. Always.

Compare it to Broadway. The Phantom of the Opera is currently the longest running show on Broadway, and a ton of people have played the Phantom (whose real name is Erik, btw). Do people refuse to go to the theater and see it because Michael Crawford no longer plays him? No. Every other actor who steps on that stage makes the role his own. It is a hard thing to be a replacement, but if an actor succeeds in making the part his own--which, going back to the Muppets, I think Steve has--then he has the right to a part of the character as well. And if you won't give these other people a chance, you're going to miss out. They may be shaky at first but take heart; these are good people. They'll find their footing.

It just breaks my heart when people feel this way, and I just want to take them by the hand and try to convince them that things will work out for the best. If we don't believe in the Muppets, who will?

I have to get back to work. Sorry for the long, sometimes ranting, and digressatory (did i just make up a new word? hehe) post.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I don't think it's that some people don't believe in The Muppets anymore. It's that we have different opinions on what believing in them means. To me, it means acknowledging their best work, and wishing it was more accessible. We don't have to like everything new they come out with if that's how we honestly feel.

 

[travellingpat]

I agree with MWoO, I believe Johnny and Sal are the most muppety characters to come out recently. personally imo i dont like pepe, sorry to all his fans out there, theres my 2 cents...

 

[SarahOnBway]

I don't think it's that some people don't believe in The Muppets anymore. It's that we have different opinions on what believing in them means. To me, it means acknowledging their best work, and wishing it was more accessible. We don't have to like everything new they come out with if that's how we honestly feel.

I definitely agree that we don't have to like everything, most definitely, but some people talk about how they've given up faith in the Muppets now, that they don't care to see any of the new characters and that they'd rather just watch the old, classic shows/movies. We can be critical and supportive too!!

 

[CensoredAlso]

I definitely agree that we don't have to like everything, most definitely, but some people talk about how they've given up faith in the Muppets now, that they don't care to see any of the new characters and that they'd rather just watch the old, classic shows/movies. We can be critical and supportive too!!

Well, it wouldn't be right to dismiss the new characters or films simply because they're new. But for me personally, it's honestly because the new projects have not been of the same caliber. The 'old' projects will never get old (heh). But I can't identify with any of the new projects, so it's very difficult. It's not anyone's fault, something's that classic can't be easily repeated.

 

[spcglider]

I agree with what Dwayne said--we have to accept that a good number of original Muppeteers have left the Muppets permanently. Jim Henson, God Bless him, has been dead for seventeen years--seventeen years! That's an awful long time to still be in the denial stage of mourning. It was a tragedy and he shouldn't have had to die, but it happened. And I guaruntee you that Jim Henson would not, under any circumstance, have wanted his characters, and especially Kermit, to cease to exist after he passed away. He would want them not only to continue to "live", but to continue to grow. He would not wanted anyone to have just done an impression of him doing Kermit for umpteen years--he would have wanted someone who could make the character his own.

And he said so in several interviews. No disagreement there.

It really upsets me when around here when I see such disparaging remarks about things we can't change. It's one thing to rag on WoO or KSY, I know I do it enough, but to continually have a pessimistic outlook on everything... I don't know, it just drives me crazy.

You may have misunderstood my intent. There is no guarantee that anyone will fall in love with how the characters are portrayed "post originator" puppeteer. I'm not saying to write them off, I'm just saying, some folks will cotton to them... others won't.

But we DO have the rarified opportunity to realize that those NEW characters (Johhny Fiama, Sal, Bobo, etc.) are being performed by their originators RIGHT NOW. If we want to appreciate them, we should do it while they are vital and "happening" instead of waking up one day and lamenting their loss and only be appreciating them through the foggy lenses of nostalgia.

I did not intend to read as pessimistic. Only realistic.

Compare it to Broadway. The Phantom of the Opera is currently the longest running show on Broadway, and a ton of people have played the Phantom (whose real name is Erik, btw). Do people refuse to go to the theater and see it because Michael Crawford no longer plays him? No. Every other actor who steps on that stage makes the role his own. It is a hard thing to be a replacement, but if an actor succeeds in making the part his own--which, going back to the Muppets, I think Steve has--then he has the right to a part of the character as well. And if you won't give these other people a chance, you're going to miss out. They may be shaky at first but take heart; these are good people. They'll find their footing.

So... which is your favorite Dr. Who? If you want to make a direct correlation to the Muppet situation, I think that might be more appropriate. There have been ten different actors to play The Doctor (eleven if you count Peter Cushing in the British movies). Its the same character, but each is different than the rest. Some people like Tom Baker best, and some people dis-like Colin Baker with a passion. But they are still Dr Who fans.

I prefer the original Kermit to Steve's Kermit. And I can tell you that, while Steve's Kermit is perfectly fine in every way, his portrayal of the character will never elicit the same response from me as did Jim's. That's just the way it is. Will Steve's future performance elicit a pleasurable or significant response in me? Time will tell. But to paraphrase the wisdom of the Tao: "You can't step into the same stream twice". Or, to make a more modern parallel: They changed the formula. It's still Coke, but it's not the same.

It just breaks my heart when people feel this way, and I just want to take them by the hand and try to convince them that things will work out for the best. If we don't believe in the Muppets, who will?

Who indeed? I think our presence here is evidence enough that we believe in the Muppets. And I will posit that it is the ones who complain, kvetch, scream, argue and critique, underneath it all, believe the most. What else could inspire that sort of passion?

-Gordon