Some thoughts on Muppet Treasure Island

[CensoredAlso]

Sam is the exact opposite of helpful. He represents everything good and normal and continually cites the Muppets as everything he's against. If anything, I'd consider Sam a villain.

See that's what I liked about their group dynamics on The Muppet Show. They considered characters like Sam or Statler and Waldorf to be members of the family, despite their occasional, um, disapproval of the show, lol.

 

[minor muppetz]

You're proving my point. Most villains think they're doing good, even if it ends up harming the heroes.

Hmmm... That may be a point, but I don't think Sam has ever done anything truly villanous (his role as Sherrif of Nottingham in Muppet Robin Hood does not count). He is a bit bossy towards the others, and doesn't seem to have any official authority over them, but that seems to be the extent of his mean-ness.

Although he was tricked by Long John Silver, I am surprised he's never been tricked into joining a villian only to realise the villian was evil and turn against him in the end. I guess the villain would have to be patriotic and/or cultural. Heck, in the recent movie, it might have been interesting if he chose not to join the Muppets again and instead join the villians in order to put an end to their weirdness... But then we might not have gotten Uncle Deadly in the sidekick role.

But when it comes to mean-but-good guy characters, Sam is probably among the last I'd imagine portraying a bad guy (or himself as a bad guy of sorts). I'd expect Statler and Waldorf (though they aren't too villanious aside from their heckling, though they DID pay for a gypsy curse on the theater once, and they did throw Kermit out of their balcony once), Crazy Harry (even though he's never really bad), Sweetums and other monsters, and maybe Fleet Scribbler. JP Grosse might be a bit obvious to list as well, though when I finally saw that character in action he seemed nicer than I'd expected.

 

[Vincent L]

Rizzo seems to be nervous since The Muppet Christmas Carol.
The ice skating scene
"There's only two things in life I hate. Heights, and jumping from them"
"Look! It's beautiful, Rizzo!" "Mommyyyyy!!!!!!!"
just to list a few

 

[jvcarroll]

I think the fusion of more human actors in MCC and MTI reflected Brian's ambition at the time to transcend the Muppet medium. Brian's MTI and MCC would not have worked with Scooter as Hawkins or Scrooge's nephew, but it could have worked in the hands of someone else. I like both films. MTI is my 4th fave. It just seems kind of odd compared to other Muppet projects before it.

 

[TogetherAgain]

I always felt that the kid that played Jim Hawkins always sang in the wrong key. I don't know why they had him singing so high?

I watched it last night actually and, I really HATE Jim Hawkins' singing voice. I don't get it, I just don't. It's too high and too hmmmm young I guess.

Trivia: What we hear in the movie was Kevin Bishop (actor for Jim) singing the songs LONG before any scenes were actually filmed, just getting the hang of the notes. When it was time for the actual filming and "real" recordings, well... Kevin hit puberty. His voice was cracking like CRAZY, and it was impossible for them to get a decent recording, so they used the old recordings from before puberty hit. And THAT is why, when Jim sings, he sounds like a much younger boy--or possibly like a girl.

Yeah, I wish they cast a less... well... effeminate kid to play Jim. If you ask me, it should have been Robin, but whatever...

So I am NOT the only one who thinks Robin could have made a good Jim! But my counter-argument (with myself) on that is that if Robin had been Hawkins, we wouldn't have gotten Jerry Nelson as Blind Pew or Mad Monty, not to mention his wonderful cameo as the butler. Also, if you watch the bonus features on the DVD--not the 50th anniversary edition, but the release before that--Brian Henson mentions that at one point, they considered having Gonzo and Rizzo as "Jim" and "Hawkins," but it didn't work because Treasure Island is a coming-of-age story, and the Muppets just aren't supposed to evolve in QUITE that sort of way. Obviously, the characters do grow and evolve and develop over time... but in 1996, Robin had been five for almost twenty years. If he'd played this "coming of age" role, he would have had to suddenly get much older. That's not the kind of drastic change they were interested in making. So we got a human Jim Hawkins. We ALSO got a fantastic computer game in which YOU can be "Hawkins," which couldn't have worked if Hawkins had been a classic Muppet character.

I have MUCH more to say, and to be honest haven't read all the replies in this thread, but unfortunately I'm very pressed for time right now. (Read: I should have been walking out the door half an hour ago.) So I will come back soon and say much more about MTI, which happens to be the first Muppet movie I remember seeing and, to this day, my favorite. (Which, yes, does make me quite biased about it... but I'm entitled to my opinions.)

 

[Vincent L]

Wait, Robin was in the movie?

 

[Vincent L]

Never mind, I found Robin. At around 4:24 and 6:00

 

[Drtooth]

I think the fusion of more human actors in MCC and MTI reflected Brian's ambition at the time to transcend the Muppet medium. Brian's MTI and MCC would not have worked with Scooter as Hawkins or Scrooge's nephew, but it could have worked in the hands of someone else. I like both films. MTI is my 4th fave. It just seems kind of odd compared to other Muppet projects before it.

Scooter just might have worked as Scrooge's nephew, but I agree that he wouldn't be that good a Jim Hawkins.

Somehow, I don't like how they had Fred's party in MCC. It seemed like filler to overstate an obvious point. I wish they spent more time with Kermit and Piggy instead... at least beefed up the Fozziewig part of the story with footage of them working instead. I know most long form movies of Christmas Carol have that sequence, but it just makes yet another scene where Muppets just sit around as extras.

More I think about it, human Jim Hawkins works... just... they had to get such a high pitched singer?

 

[TogetherAgain]

As promised, I have returned with more to say and with less of a time limit. First... responding to various other posts.

The 'Father issues' storyline that they added to Jim's character for this movie was a little strange and forced. In the book his dad just died sometime after Billy Bones arrived.

I never found it at all strange or forced... but then again, this was my first introduction to the story of Treasure Island. When I read the book for school in seventh grade, I remember noticing all sorts of differences between the book and Muppet Treasure Island, but the "father issues" bit was not one of them--or at least, not that I recall.

But scarier still...BLIND PEW.

Blind Pew TERRIFIED me as a kid. I mean, not to the extent that I would run out of the room, which was my usual reaction to anything remotely scary on TV... but he SCARED me. He's even scarier in the computer game that was based on the movie. (You know, the one that was the subject of that series I started ages ago on The Muppet Mindset, and never finished? I should do something about that...) In almost every scene of the game at the Benbow Inn, I was mildly paranoid about where I clicked, because it wasn't hard to randomly have Blind Pew creeping by. Now, I find him hilarious... but my knee-jerk reaction when he shows up is always to flinch.

Interesting fact about me, this was the first Muppet movie that I actually remember actively watching. I had seen them as a kid, of course, and sort of knew who most of the characters were, but didn't even realize that Squire Trelawny was Fozzie...so it must have been quite early in my Muppet fandom.

For me, too, this was the first Muppet movie I remember seeing. I'm sure I had seen bits of MCC on television before, and I somehow knew who Fozzie was... But this was my real introduction to Muppets. Well--this, and the computer game, which shows some of the characters in slightly different capacities and includes some lesser-known characters as well.

Captain Smollet, maybe you should have checked the crew BEFORE you left port.

That ALWAYS bothered me. I mean, maybe not the first time I saw the movie, but by the second time (which was the very next night) I remember thinking, "Um... isn't it a little late?" But then when I read another sea-faring book, The True Confessions of Charlotte Doyle, the first roll call didn't happen until they had been at sea for several hours. So either it actually was common not to take roll until after leaving port, or it just tends to happen that way in literature. (Or I just tend to be drawn to literature where that happens... Hmm.)

But that compass really annoys me...not being in the original book AT ALL.

Oh, come on now, Beau! That compass is AWESOME. It's a wonderful piece of emotion that the Muppets added when they took this story and made it their own. And the best thing about it is that it doesn't look like anything special--no fancy engraving or elaborate design. It's just a compass, but it means so much more to Jim... and Long John respects that.

Its good to see that Kermit is still a good leader and is prepared to order Jim to give him the map (also that Mr Arrow was listening at the door).

What I love in that moment is that Kermit is such a leader... but still has to brace himself to give that order. Note the way he places his hand on the desk, pulls himself up a little bit... He knows what has to happen, but he really doesn't want to force it--he wants to guide Jim to make the choice himself. He does, of course, give the order, but that little bit of reluctance there is so wonderful.

Another point in the movie when there is just a WORLD of storytelling just in the movement of Kermit's hand? Just after Jim tells him that Long John is planning mutiny, and Kermit responds by sending Long John and the pirates to the island. Jim whispers, "Don't do that!" and Kermit, without ever looking away from Long John, quietly puts his hand on Jim's arm. That, to me, is just a fantastic gesture--calming and reassuring, while also quieting Jim so he's less likely to accidentally tip the pirates off that something's afoot. (Of course, Silver figures it out anyway, but that's beside the point.)

love led us here is ok, but i think they kind of ruined it by having it play with them hanging upside down in the scene, it's too silly

Silly? They're about to die! How is that silly? Just because they're upside-down? Well, if you want to dangle someone over a cliff so that they'll be perfectly alive and conscious for a while before plummeting to certain death, upside-down is the way to go. If you hang them by their wrists, they can slip their hands out; plus, it would be a lot easier for them to swing over, get their feet on the cliff, and save themselves. I suppose you could tie the rope under their shoulders, but that would take a lot more rope and a lot more work. Easier just to hang them by their ankles, so their feet hold them in place, and they have a long, miserable time to spend contemplating their death. (Or, y'know, singing a love song. Whatever works.)

The problem is, there WAS no place to put Piggy as far as the story go to begin with. Jerry managed to find a way to add her in, gender swapping a character and changing the character's role. I agree her role was kinda... well... contractually obligated in the film. Not her best one, but I'm starting to dislike her role in MFS more.

Two things here. One--Piggy's role as Benjamina is far more significant than her role as Mrs. Cratchit. (And, for the record, if you compare Muppet Christmas Carol to the book, you'll see that the part of Mrs. Cratchit was actually toned down to fit Piggy better.) Two--Is it really that small of a role? I did the math at some point, and if I'm remembering right, Piggy comes into MTI about forty minutes into the movie. That may sound awful at first, but in The Muppet Movie, Piggy is introduced... about forty minutes into the movie. Even in The Great Muppet Caper, which was arguably her best (or at least most prominent) role, she doesn't show up at all for the first twenty minutes. My opinion of Piggy's role in MTI: She's fashionably late, as usual. Then she has a HUGE grand entrance, turns the role of "being marooned" completely on its head, takes a fairly major role in how the plot plays out, yells at the frog and then defends him, kicks some bad-guy butt... oh, and looks great doing it, of course. I realize I'm probably in the minority here, but I honestly don't see much to complain about.

And with that, sadly, I am out of time again. So I will just have to come back again some other time and ramble even more!

 

[Hayley B]

I watched a little bit of it last week. Some scenes was alright. But I will not buy this one. Personally the reason why is because they only have Animal drumming in this one.