Should the Muppets retire?

[MWoO]

Mike Bennidict, they may be intended to be aimed towards all ages, but it isn't. For instance, I don't know of a whole lot of people around here who say to themselves, "Mmmm, let's see, there's a Muppet program on tonight, but so is a new episode of Family Guy. Let's watch Muppets!" My family has a very good sense of humor and knows what real entertainment is.

Are you saying we don't have a real sense of what entertainment is?

Just because most people like one show over another does not mean the show they choose not to watch is not aimed at them. If Family Guiy was up against Law and ORder, I bet a lot of people would choose Family Guy too. Does that make Law and Order a children's show? There is no logic in your reasoning here.

Also, Bear said he snapped because of something his dad said, not me. If that is not an issue to work out, I don't know what is. If I went around snapping at people because I was mad at my dad, I would seek help. But wwhatever. Let's pretend there are no bad feelings in the world like so many people on muppet forums like to do.

 

[MWoO]

Dude, maybe you should lay off, MWoO... you're the one that seems a little sensative about things. Bear was trying to be nice about the situation.


Bear, don't listen to that... if you like Sesame Street, knock yourself out. Personally, I like to, from time to time, I like to see if I can catch stuff on there from when I was little. But like Balana said, most of the stuff on there, to me, isn't enjoyable anymore.

Balana, thank you very much... that's exactly what I was trying to say.

I can see that MWoO is one of the people who just gets excited when he hears about a new Muppet project, but then when he hears that it stinks, he probably plugs his ears and yells, "la la la la la la la la, I can't hear you!" Some people are afraid to see things for what they are. You know, denial. Like someone mentioned earlier, how many things have the Muppets done since Jim's death that have been memorable? Like, "Happy Feet" memorable? The Muppets are dying. We really need something worth watching to bring both adults and kids back to loving them. I seem to be a lot like forum member Bear. My dad isn't thrilled about me liking Muppets at this age, and when he sees it, I know he's just as embarrassed of me as I am of myself at that moment.

Happy Feet is all of a sudden this big memorable thing? Since when? It's a fog boucning up and down in a tux. How is that more gewnious than say Kermit on MT sining that song in the giant white suit? I love bit, though I cant for the life of me remember the nname of the song. The tune runs through my head now and then and I always love watching that bit. It's funny and well done. It is at least as memorable as Happy Feet.

Contrary to what you believe, I do not plug my ears and go "la la la". I do see the bad in current productions. I also see the bad in older productions. You seem to only see the bad in current productions and only see the good in the older stuff. Fact is not EVERY part of the older movies is that great, but as a whole they are good. The same goes for the new stuff, as it does for everything in life pretty much. Was MWoO the best movie ever? No. Was it a fairly good made for TV movie with a decent mix of characters? Yes, it was.

I can name plenty of memorable things in the post Jim muppets. Pepe, Jonny, Sal, and Bobo for example. The Kermit song I mentioned. MTI was a darn good movie. There is a lot of good stuff post Jim Henson. I think the only reason you say the old stuff is so memorable and great is because you watched it so many times. You are the kind of person who can not stand to see new performers take over. You do not dislike Steve because his performance is bad, you dislike Steve because he is not Jim Henson. You do not Dislike Eric because his performance is bad, you dislike him because his voices are slightly different so obvisouly he must be awful. You are the one going "la la la" because you just can not accept any new performers.

 

[unclematt]

Frogster, your apology was heart felt and sincere. Thank you.

 

[Skeeter Muppet]

Happy Feet is all of a sudden this big memorable thing? Since when? It's a fog boucning up and down in a tux. How is that more gewnious than say Kermit on MT sining that song in the giant white suit? I love bit, though I cant for the life of me remember the nname of the song. The tune runs through my head now and then and I always love watching that bit. It's funny and well done. It is at least as memorable as Happy Feet.

Does the bit include Kermit saying the words "Same as it ever was"? I think the name of that song is "Once in a Lifetime"; can't for the life of me remember who the original artists were. It's been on the rotation on MC Radio a few times.

Contrary to what you believe, I do not plug my ears and go "la la la". I do see the bad in current productions. I also see the bad in older productions. You seem to only see the bad in current productions and only see the good in the older stuff. Fact is not EVERY part of the older movies is that great, but as a whole they are good. The same goes for the new stuff, as it does for everything in life pretty much. Was MWoO the best movie ever? No. Was it a fairly good made for TV movie with a decent mix of characters? Yes, it was.

Good points here. There's good and bad to be found in EVERYTHING the Muppets have done, in ANY fandom you are a part of (and I use the general "you" here). I myself enjoyed MWoO for the most part, and I thought it was kind of original the way the writers decided to base the film on L. Frank Baum's novel rather than the more popular and widely-known MGM film which the Muppets did a send up of in 'Muppets Go Hollywood'.

But what makes me glad is that the Muppets are getting out there and doing things again, getting themselves engrained in the subconscious of the public, and gaining new fans. Fans who may buy the Season 1 DVD set when it comes out and get to know the Muppets as they were under Jim's influence. And I, personally, see no downside to that.

...There is a lot of good stuff post Jim Henson. I think the only reason you say the old stuff is so memorable and great is because you watched it so many times. You are the kind of person who can not stand to see new performers take over. You do not dislike Steve because his performance is bad, you dislike Steve because he is not Jim Henson. You do not Dislike Eric because his performance is bad, you dislike him because his voices are slightly different so obvisouly he must be awful. You are the one going "la la la" because you just can not accept any new performers.

Well said here, MWoO, well said. Steve and Eric are not Jim and Frank, and they never will be, so why should we expect them to be exactly like Jim and Frank were? Can anyone here honestly say that they would have rather seen Kermit disappear from the Muppets after Jim's death, the way Scooter did for ten years after Richard passed away? Or lose Piggy, Fozzie and Animal because Frank has retired from performing with the Muppets? Just because the characters' new performers aren't up to your standards?

-Kim

 

[That Announcer]

Well said here, MWoO, well said. Steve and Eric are not Jim and Frank, and they never will be, so why should we expect them to be exactly like Jim and Frank were? Can anyone here honestly say that they would have rather seen Kermit disappear from the Muppets after Jim's death, the way Scooter did for ten years after Richard passed away? Or lose Piggy, Fozzie and Animal because Frank has retired from performing with the Muppets? Just because the characters' new performers aren't up to your standards?

-Kim

Perfect. Yes, Steve's Kermit is not 100% the same as Jim's, but it's closer than anyone else has come. Yes, Eric's Fozzie is not exactly the same as Frank's, but it's very close. Yes, Scooter and Sweetums do not sound exactly the same now, but I'd rather have them with a 95% accurate voice than not at all.

And I have made the following error, and I partially apologize for it: The Muppets have always been "edgy". The Muppets have always been partially geared to children. So you'll notice that the Muppets are now the same as they were thirty years ago: edgy and partially geared to kids. The only difference is that the definition of "edgy" has changed, and today's kids enjoy different things than the kids of twenty (or thirty) years ago enjoyed. Think of it this way: If the Muppets begin a series and bring in Leonard Nimoy as a guest star, kids of today will be left scratching their heads and saying "Who's Leonard Nimoy?", and the parents will be disappointed that their kids "couldn't enjoy the Muppets in the same way I did". Well, if you do want everyone to enjoy the Muppets, some slight changes may have to be made. However, if you can bypass the changes (all five of 'em), you'll find quality entertainment like you would have found in GMC.

PS: The Muppets were flawed in the '70s and '80s, and they are flawed today as well, just with different problems. Nothing's perfect, ever. Yes, it can be refined, but it cannot be perfect.

 

[mikebennidict]

Not totally true. MTI and MCC were more of a kid movie, but even those can be enjoyed by an adult. KSY however is a true example of what the muppets would be like if they were truly meant for just kids. Unfunny crap.

Frankly, a lot of people will tell you that anything cartoon or puppet is meant for kids when that is not true. Shrek, while enjoyed by kids on a simple level, can be greatly enjoyed by adults on a higher level. It's two differet levels of enjoyment. There is nothing wrong with watching a cartoon or a puppet show as long as it is not strictly a kids show. I mean if you sit down and watch Sesame Street on a regular basis and enjoy it you mighth ave a problem. Obviously that is meant for kids.

I meant the Muppets in general I wasn't limiting it to a certain show or movie! TMS was aimed at both kids and grownups!

 

[mikebennidict]

Mike Bennidict, they may be intended to be aimed towards all ages, but it isn't. For instance, I don't know of a whole lot of people around here who say to themselves, "Mmmm, let's see, there's a Muppet program on tonight, but so is a new episode of Family Guy. Let's watch Muppets!" My family has a very good sense of humor and knows what real entertainment is.

whatever.

 

[MWoO]

I meant the Muppets in general I wasn't limiting it to a certain show or movie! TMS was aimed at both kids and grownups!

I know. That is why I said it was not totally true and cited those examples. I know that TMS was made for adults first and kids second, I then cited examples where the reverse is true.

 

[BEAR]

Are you saying we don't have a real sense of what entertainment is?

Just because most people like one show over another does not mean the show they choose not to watch is not aimed at them. If Family Guiy was up against Law and ORder, I bet a lot of people would choose Family Guy too. Does that make Law and Order a children's show? There is no logic in your reasoning here.

Also, Bear said he snapped because of something his dad said, not me. If that is not an issue to work out, I don't know what is. If I went around snapping at people because I was mad at my dad, I would seek help. But wwhatever. Let's pretend there are no bad feelings in the world like so many people on muppet forums like to do.

No it was something you said that reminds me of the logic of parents that don't understand those things that we like. That is what i was replying to. And it wasn;t a snap. There is no need to be mean about this or disrespectful to other people on this forum for things that you have no information or knowledge about. Therefore I will disregard anything you say about me because it isn't valid. You don't know anything about me making your personal jabs irrelevant. I am a bigger person than that. I would never attack you and make up assumptions about your personal life nor would i tell you to seek help or therapy. Plain innappropriate and really crossing the lines of this place. You do this an awful lot on these threads as I have noticed and it is not acceptable. I am not the moderator here but I don;t care. I ask you to NEVER EVER speak to ME or ANYONE on this forum like that EVER AGAIN or I will go and speak to Kevin or Phil about it because that is not the way we run things here. Especially after I had previously apologized to you and tried to resolve it.

 

[BEAR]

Anyways... whatever has happened should be dropped as of now.

Onto the real topic at hand:

I don't think the Muppets should retire. They have some newer characters that I feel are starting to really find their place in the family--Johnny, Sal and notably Pepe. I don;t think Johnny and Sal will be break out characters and become the big new stars, but Pepe seems to be getting there. I see Johnny and Sal as being the Bunsen and Beaker of now. Pepe is like the new Elmo in a way. I think Disney is doing their best (and succeeding) in keeping the magic of the Muppets alive and strong. Oz was a fine start. Not the greatest piece i guess but not awful. They can only get better from here.