Sesame Street to Introduce HIV-Positive Muppet

[Janice & Mokey's Man]

I see what you're sayin', Luke...it's just that I've heard many say they would definitely not to choose to be that way. I know there's gay pride things and stuff, and that largely stems from opression of society. But I see what you're sayin', too.

 

[FellowWLover]

Luke

At the risk of bringing on the wrath... I most certainly believe that there are three categories (maybe more, but at least these three) of "gay" folks...

One that consists of people that are born, genetically or whatever, GAY... these people certainly do not choose to be homosexual; they may or may not be proud and may or may not embrace the lifestyle, but they did not choose it. They simply are gay by right of birth.

The second group, IMO, either through choice or circumstance "become" gay due to life events, whatever they may be (I hear your prison example, but think that might be a little far-fetched). I am thinking of women with nothing but abusive relationships with men (from father to suitor), or men with twisted maternal relationships... not just these examples, but a variety and volume of experiences which lead a person to "become" homosexual.

The third group would be those who dabble in homosexuality for whatever reason. I think these people are choosing to be gay to satisfy curiosity or fashion. Some of these folks may be gay for spite, as an act of defiance, or for pure shock value.

Before anyone over-reacts, let me say that, yes, I do have extensive experience with the gay community, and no, I do not believe any of the three aformentioned categories of gay people should be discriminated against.

 

[trekkie1701E]

Special_Ed said:
<I refuse to incorporate things like that into my own work and it's sad when others seem to feel the need to>

Why does educating children about a disease constitute "sad"? Yes, HIV is an STD. But, Sesame Street won't portray it that way. All the show will do is teach viewers that HIV is a sickness, but not one that people should be afraid of. It will teach kids to respect and embrace their fellow peers, instead of shunning/neglecting them.

As for gay people, I am a huge fan of Rosie O'Donnell. She is, and always has been, a very loving person. In addition to founding the FOR ALL KIDS FOUNDATION, which has raised millions of $$ through ebay, she donated the majority of proceeds from her show to charity. She has also attended tons of fundraisers. And she is always willing to sign autographs.
And She "is" a christian.

So ... I don't believe that Rosie O'Donnell is guilty of anything. She is very charitable, extremely gifted and she loves all children. However, despite all this, some people believe that Rosie being gay is cause enough for her to forever be a sinner. I don't believe this. Some people do. It's fine! You either believe it's wrong or you don't. Just like Christianity itself.

Daniel

 

[trekkie1701E]

One more thing I forgot to mention; Remember when Mr. Hooper died? Sesame Street writers & producers went to child psychiatrists for help on what to do. Two things that should not happen; Don't say that Hooper died in the hospital and don't say that he went away on a long trip. It was finally decided that Sesame Street would just be straight-forward and totally honest about Mr. Hooper's death.
I have a feeling that they'll be just as honest about HIV (W/out the muppet saying, "HIV is caused by having sex. Sex happens when..." )

Daniel

 

[frogboy4]

Special_Ed

Calling gay people "sicko" is certainly name-calling in my book and relating them to murderers and child molesters is not only extreme, it is hurtful. It is not necessary to do that in order to get your point across.

It is also important to note that when posting you are stating your opinion and not a moral absolute. They are your adopted beliefs - your lifestyle choice no matter how absolute you feel they happen to be.

I feel the reason that so many people want to drum spirituality out of public functions is because of radical religious folk who try to impose their beliefs others. I actually think the elimination of spirituality is a horrible trend happening in this country. Can't we all get along no matter what our background differences and cut out the condemnation-speech?

There really is no agenda here. Just teaching kids tolerance - not sex or homosexuality. HIV in children is mainly contracted from the parent. I am sure there are no plans to introduce a gay Muppet and no sexuality to be discussed with the new South African one. Much of this talk really seems moot to me.

To All

I think that Jessica is kind of right although the majority of gay people I know have the same story of "always knowing it". I don't see why this has become a gay discussion. This is about a female Muppet in South Africa who is going to teach children tolerance while representing the 1 in 9 infected with HIV over there.

Muppet or Man

I actually think that if a US character is introduced it should be a real kid who is moderately healthy and coping with the disease. This would certainly go over better than a Muppet in my opinion. I also wouldn't mind in the future if children with other diseases appeared on the program and informed kids.

Geez - I’d rather talk about action figures now!

 

[MuppetQuilter]

Well said, Jamie!

It's funny, this all got started over a miss quote in the original announcement of an HIV+ Muppet on Sesame in South Africa. The media has gone a little nuts with it. Poor Steve Whitmire was probably blindsided by the reporter who talked to him-- after all, what connection does Steve have with a show produced on the other side of the world? We're still debating the pros and cons of all this in terms of the American Sesame Street, when it has been clearly stated there are no plans to introduce an HIV+ anything.

But I'm almost caught up on the Ask Ken thread, how about we talk about something else for just a little longer so I have a chance to get completely caught up on the action figures? Anyone want to join me at the MuppetFest 2003 discussion?

 

[Special_Ed]

Janice & Monkey man,

Being gay is a choice. It is learned behavior, it is a sexual fetish and nothing more. There are also numerous examples of people who have swung back, and if it a birth deffect, as you so claim, why is it so wide spread now and not so much so a few generations ago. You also mentioned that these people struggled with their lifestyle, but so do child molstors. They know it's wrong and try to stay on the right path, but sometimes they still give into the urge to do the wrong thing. Would you claim that they are born that way as well? Get real.

Trekkie,

"Yes, HIV is an STD. But, Sesame Street won't portray it that way. "

I had to post youir quote here, what is the point of talking about it if you're not going to discuss it thuroghly? That's why I saw leave it alone all together.

Your Rosie O'Donnell arguement is weak. Just because someone does many good things it does not eliminate a wrong deed. Take the reverse side of the coin, if someone does many evil deeds and one good deed does that mean they are now a good person? She obviously can not be a very good Christian if she isn't living the teachings of the Bible, the book at the center of that religion. I know all about this Rosie O'Donnell arguement because my aunt is gay, a huge Rosie fan, and a similar person. It doesn't work.

I remember watching when Mr. Hooper died. How is this like HIV or a gay muppet? Death is a more important part of life because we all must die someday, and many children have family members who die when they are young. Knowing what they died of is not important.

Frogboy,

Everything I say is a moral absolute. THis garbage about "Situational ethics" is insane and another reason why people have no idea what is right or wrong anymore. They get this Situational ethics stuff crammed down their throats and they can't decide on anything anymore.

Try reading the writings of the founding fathers and see what they thought about spirituality. THis stuff about "a seperation between Church and State" is a total myth and out right lie. Go and read what these men REALLY wrote and you'll see how greatly misquoted they are today. There are so many cases of things they've said being represented in misleading ways by the media that it's unreal.

You can teach tolerence, but you don't have specifically target every type of tolerence. Tolerence is tolerence, whay more do you need to discuss with children?


We got on the gay discussion when The Muppet Quilter said to bring on a gay muppet.

 

[frogboy4]

Special_Ed

All this is your opinion stated as fact. Stating that everything you have said is a moral absolute is virtually claiming that you are God himself and would be laughable if there weren't so much venom in your statements. Calling being gay a fetish or birth defect is insulting and continuing to relate them to child molesters is unacceptable. I have made the appropriate grievances and will post to you no further. I really hope to never hear from you on the board but also know that will not erase the hatred, ignorance and condescension in your heart. I will not read or reply to future posts. You obviously have no respect for you common man. Not very Christ-like in my eyes.

 

[Janice & Mokey's Man]

Originally posted by Special_Ed
Being gay is a choice. It is learned behavior, it is a sexual fetish and nothing more. There are also numerous examples of people who have swung back, and if it a birth deffect, as you so claim, why is it so wide spread now and not so much so a few generations ago. You also mentioned that these people struggled with their lifestyle, but so do child molstors. They know it's wrong and try to stay on the right path, but sometimes they still give into the urge to do the wrong thing. Would you claim that they are born that way as well? Get real.

I am real. I am in touch with the world and people. You are assuming too much, thinking that being gay is a complete choice. If that were so, some gay people would not be torn over it---I already mentioned that above, including how hormones are uncontrollabe (just sounds like you forgot what I wrote or didn't bother to read). You like what you like.

And yes I've heard of people who have swung back, and I believe that is possible for those people who did experience their sexuality as a learned behavior, or the only environment they knew.

Also, please do not misquote me. I didn't say being gay is a birth defect, you said that. That is just an insult to that community. It is a sexual orientation for most, not any sort of defect or preference.

You obviously don't know a great deal about sexuality in general if you believe that homosexuality is a "fetish". A fetish is having to include a specific body part or an inanimate object in foreplay or intercourse. That has nothing to do with homosexuality.

And since when are all child molestors conscientious people who feel bad about what they do? Not the ones I've seen on the news...you just keep missing points by bigger and bigger ballparks...

 

[Luke]

Originally posted by MuppetQuilter
But I'm almost caught up on the Ask Ken thread, how about we talk about something else for just a little longer so I have a chance to get completely caught up on the action figures? Anyone want to join me at the MuppetFest 2003 discussion?

Originally posted by frogboy4
I will not read or reply to future posts.

Hey Guys,

Why am i getting this sudden vibe that everyone wants to run away and talk about something else when things get a little controversial ?

Like it or not, Special Ed isn't alone - there are plenty of people in this world who share the same kind of opinions and not saying they are right, but he does have some very valid (albeit very right wing) opinions. With regards to the 'gay' thing there are certainly many Christian and other religious groups around who feel that being gay is 'dirty' or that the person has been 'bad' in their life to bring that on them. I'm not saying these groups are in the majority, or that they're right but they are certainly out there and spreading their views in a free country.

Lets not forget it was Muppetquilter who asked why they shouldn't introduce a gay Muppet and she has a point. While i'm not relating disease to gay people, or saying that they are anything like the same kind of thing - they are both controversial topics for a childrens show to consider introducing, and thus both very valid for discussion here. You can bet your bottom dollar that both 'homosexuality' and 'HIV' share a place on producers lists of ideas for kids shows around the country..... even if they don't make it to air.

I do agree that Special Ed is sailing a little close to the wind in some places but i also don't see the need to pack up and move out of the thread. If you don't agree with whats being said, this is your chance to air your views and stick up for your beliefs - it's good to see most people doing that and for once we are getting our teeth into a meaty topic that is now being discussed in the mainstream media too.

Personally i think we need to move beyond JUST action figures, and Muppetfest Spring 2003 is definitely not a 'given'. They no more have that planned than Muppetfest Autumn 2002 - it's way too early and really depends on what happens within the company. It was a little misleading to make some kind of 'event announcement' although i know it was with good intentions. They HOPE to hold an event sometime early'ish next year, and i hope that i get to shower with Britney Spears - but if Disney buys my butt, that won't be happening either !