Save the Fozzie Replica

[Reevz1977]

Hey Reevz1977-

Wow, that really is a nice piece of work. I have already conceded that we needed better pics... But the one issue I have with the ad -- and let me go on record as saying that this is not a criticism of you, personally -- is the red curtain motif. Not that I don't like it, I do. In fact, I rallied very hard to use the red curtain motif on the packaging for the Muppet Photo Puppets.

The problem is that Disney's style guide is broken into 3 tiers -- Mass, Mid-tier, and Specialty. And the red curtain motif is (I think) reserved for Mid-tier products. The mass guide is the green and purple one, and the specialty one is the brown/green that was used on MR's Kermit. So were were prohibited from using the red curtain on any specialty products. I tried to get them to make an exception since, in my ever so humble opinion, the red curtain is both more elegant AND creates a sense of nostalgia. But ultimately, we had to go with the green/brown guide. (We did get them to let us change the color scheme for Animal and Gonzo, but we had to stick to the same motif -- with the technical drawings of the characters in the background!)

I would have LOVED to use the red curtains...

Hi Travis, I knew you were going to say that and to an extent I understand it, however, my genuine opinion is that the majority of these will be sold to people 25+, whose income allows them to purchase such highend products. That age, leads me to believe that it would be largely Muppet Show fans that buy into this line. I knew that Disneys corporate guidelines would be extraordinarily restrictive (and probably suffocating) and that they appear to want to move away from the more nostagic/ classic Muppet Show look. The strange and confusing part is that the Gonzo and Animal that were produced are specific to The Muppet Show days The beauty of producing a 'fan made' ad is that this does not restrict me as such and although I really want to remain faithful to Disney's sensibilties over the Muppet brand, I wholeheartedly feel the made a mistake to move away from this look.

Can you tell me if the change in packaging made a difference to the Palisades line, I genuinely would be really interested to know if it affected the sales figures in any way? I guess it would be hard to tell because of the character choices but I would expect it to have had some influence.

 

[ElecMayhem]

I completely agree with all of your comments. But, Disney gets what Disney wants, for the most part. Personally, if I were the King of the World, I would have made the red curtain the Specialty Style Guide... for all of the reasons that we've both mentioned. Just makes more sense to me.

As for the change in packaging affecting the sales at Palisades... I don't think so. Although, geez... that was so long ago, it's hard to remember. If anything sales increased between series 3 and 4 (when the packaging changed)because Target came on board w/ S4. That said, there was a backlash with some MIB collectors, because the packaging looked so drastically different. But I don't think that it changed anyone's purchasing habits. The real change in sales numbers didn't occur until around Series 7, when we started to run out of "mainstream" characters...

 

[Was Once Ernie]

I'd be especially disappointed in Gonzo's eyelids. That was something I begged Travis to make poseable, but in the end, they didn't do it.

Hey Travis!

I just wanted to make sure you knew that I'm not blaming you for this. You'll notice that I wrote "THEY didn't do it," not that you didn't follow through. I know that you did everything that was humanly possible.

Take care!
Earl

 

[frogboy4]

I hope Disney revises their style guide for their new Muppet push.

Thanks Travis for bringing that to our attention. I do remember Henson's blue packaging swap wasn't well received, but I liked it. It made the Palisades figures pop, but I wish they'd kept some sort of red curtain element in it. I remember pitching a box design to Ken: I had this idea if they ever did a Seymour and Pepe convention combo to make the box resemble an elevator. Aside from the fact GLue was your graphics guy; Ken gave me a similar response as in your statement. It would have been a really nice piece. I have often considered cleaning up my art on it to stick it as a spec piece in my portfolio, but its overrun with Muppets already.

As for WOE's comment about the photograph and disclaimer - it is a standard practice that happens all the time. Part of this is because products aren't ready until after the graphics are completed, but also they placing their product in the best possible light. This is usually done with massive amounts of Photoshop. Reevs' posers were improved by a pupil tweak and a couple of brow pins. 95% of what we see in advertising is retouched more than this composition. My posers look close to those in the photo right now. Sometimes I think they're watching me.

I think the pupil tweak is okay because Animals were alright and Gonzo's pupil issues weren't as visible when shot from an angle. I would lower Gonzo's eyelids for the shot, but that's just my personal taste. From fast food to high end items - the advertising pictures are usually remarkably different from the final piece. I always wonder how someone can go into a burger joint and not compare their food to the many photos surrounding them, but I am a vegetarian. Anyway, I think the photos are great as they are. The fact that Animal doesn't have his stand is misleading in itself. Nothing here crosses the line IMHO. The notice inside each box should expand a little more and mention how the poser will settle over time.

EDIT: Brown is generally a bad advertising color (except for coffee or chocolate products).

 

[rtgentry]

To the issue of presenting a pic of an altered muppet:

You say that its okay if it doesnt look the same because people know that the final product always looks different or not quite the same...... Hmm I wonder if that is the same attitube MR had with their photos......

just a thought

But I do agree. awesome awesome layout and I would vote for it

 

[frogboy4]

To the issue of presenting a pic of an altered muppet:

You say that its okay if it doesnt look the same because people know that the final product always looks different or not quite the same...... Hmm I wonder if that is the same attitube MR had with their photos......

just a thought

But I do agree. awesome awesome layout and I would vote for it

I think there was just a general inexperience with photographing Muppets with the MR images. It didn't appear to be a top priority. I can't imagine any company releasing unattractive promotional product photos for any reason especially the one stated above. But we've been through that. At least none of them were on skateboards or smoking an invisible doobie.

Reevs' posers are really "altered" as much as they are styled. They aren't going to look that good out of the box and posers by nature are meant to be styled. In an alternate universe where I was the one in charge of this product this is exactly what I would have done. Oh, and hire Reevs for the photos and graphic design of these (even being a designer myself).

His stuff is amazing and he obviously takes pride in his work. I have met too many people that call themselves graphic designers and artist that just slap stuff together and give excuses of why it looks underwhelming. In fact much of the design world I've seen is that way. People seem to give more points for speed than accuracy for some reason. When did all these talented people flood this forum? It used to be a much smaller group. Now you could throw a frog and hit at talented artist here. Not that I condone the throwing of frogs for any reason!

 

[muppetguy]

Does anyone who's been reading think that MR will change their mind after looking at Reevz photos?

Travis, you've worked at MR, is it that when their mind is made up, that's it, or will they look further into these photos and see poptential to sell the posers?

Any and all thoughts welcomed. I honestly hope we get Fozzie.

 

[Telly]

In all honesty...I don't think they're going to release Fozzie. I think the line's dead.

 

[ElecMayhem]

Travis, you've worked at MR, is it that when their mind is made up, that's it, or will they look further into these photos and see poptential to sell the posers?

Oh, they've been known to change their minds... but sadly, I think that Telly is right.

 

[muppetguy]

Thanks, Trav. I appreciate it.

Well, it looks like our muppets will NEVER be complete...Unless...

another company picks up this idea and runs with it. That could be a possibility.....right?

I know, I'm really trying to hold on here...but...I guess I should just let go.