Questions About The Toy Industry

[beakerfan76]

Sadly, my folks can't really tell the difference from a bootleg and the real deal. A few years ago we bought this Power Rangers bootleg figure set, and the things fell apart faster than you can say "Go go, Power Rangers!" Also, I personally have been duped into buying some bootleg Mickey and Minnie stickers. I thought they were official at first, but upon further inspection, they were inconsistent, the stickers were poorly made to not come off a surface, and some were a bit weird.

As much as I hate bootlegs, however, I find them hilarious, especially how some cut through so much red tape to avoid copyright (I saw a silver Darth Vader lookalike once that looked like his "Lightsaber" was a long sausage) but still rip off an established franchise.

Speaking of which, I wonder if they ever made Muppet bootlegs, just for laughs.

 

[Drtooth]

Speaking of which, I wonder if they ever made Muppet bootlegs, just for laughs.

I believe I've seen some (mostly Sesame Street ones). Nickel and dime stuff, though... stickers (almost bought those, actually) coloring books (I think)... maybe the odd "Elmo" plush here or there. There was once a report of bootlegged Rocking Ernie and Elmo dolls... only thing different was that they switched the voice boxes.

There was a report of some odd European bootlegs of Schliech figures. Off colored (and I mean the literal interpretation) Muppet Show and Muppet babies figures. But nothing much beyond that point.

There's debate about These Fraggle Figures though. I can totally see why they're thought to be bootlegs.

 

[beakerfan76]

I can see the bootleg potential with the Fraggle figures, but some look half decent (Mokey in particular), and I should have known there were Sesame ripoffs.

 

[beaker]

For the Sonic situation, I always managed to find something I liked in every incarnation, be it Long John Baldry's scenery chewing performance as Robotnik in AoSTH (My personal favorite representation of the character next to satAM's rotten to the core persona), the serious storyline of satAM mixed with some comic relief (Mostly thanks to Antoine), or the animation of Sonic Underground and Sonic X (Come on, most of the voices in Sonic X aren't as apocalypitically horrible as they're portrayed, though some are pretty bad).

As for the fans, the ones I don't like are the cynics who nitpick and convince themselves the game is bad, no matter how minuscule a problem may be (Sonic's blur doesn't look right! Tails' bangs are off by an inch! Why's Sonic stopping Robotnik's park for no reason? This game stinks!)

Topic derailing aside, I'll get back on track. The figures (Resaurus) (sp?) are sought after and loads of bootlegs are found on eBay. Not sure about the Toy Island or Jazwares ones, but Resaurus seems to have a copious amount of bootlegs, mainly for Sonic and E-102, though some Amy's float around. They're cheap, overpriced, wastes of plastic, an absolute disgrace to the Resaurus originals. as for Jazwares and Toy Island, they're doing well, especially Jazwares, releasing some more obscure characters. That said, and I can see the flames coming from miles away, I'd say it's high time for a passable Cream figure. Hey, if Big can get one, Cream certainly should!

Dr. Tooth, what are your feelings on the bootlegs, Sonic or otherwise?

If you think its bad with Sonic knockoff bootleg merch...hoo boy, just try googling "Mario figure" on ebay and watch as virtually every match returns hong kong origin bootlegs. In fact, be it anywhere online, comic shops, etc its almost impossible to find
authentic Mario or Nintendo merchandise(other than the tired same ol Popco/Goldie stuff released over and over again at Toys R Us and Gamestop thats been out for years)

But yeah, it disgusts me on so many levels with the bootlegs as
1) if people think regular toy companies are slave labor pits, pirate factories are dangerous regulation-less sweatshops
2) the companies obviously dont get any money
3) sometimes the pirate stuff funds illegal criminal activity
4) the quality is ultra subpar, both with hazardous and or weak plastics and paint
5) they look terrible. And often are almost the SAME price as the authentic stuff

Sadly, Nintendo doesnt care and wont raise a finger nor will ebay to stop the millions of bootleg stuff.

Regarding the Sonic "fans", yeah the nitpickers are just whiny.
Sure, even Sega's American president has recently and publicly admitted Sonic is way too ubiquitous and overexposed. And yeah, Sega and the game media embarrasses themselves every year by saying "this time, Sega just may have done it right with a good mix of old and new school"...when, the truth is almost every game has some good to it. The day time levels in Unleashed I thought were amazing. I thought a lot of Sonic 2006
was pretty amazing, albeit a bit wonky...yet pretty dark and epic. Sonic Colors to me is the true successor to Sonic CD, and is one heck of a fun game. Though I admit Sonic Free Riders is way too cumbersome, and it needed the choice to use a controller.

I'm more of an "obscure" Sonic fan. My favorite games are Sonic CD, the Game Gear games, Sonic 2 Genesis, Sonic the Fighters arcade, and Sonic Advance 1. I LOVE the more modern Archie Sonic comics, especially Sonic Universe. The fact the comics combine SatAM, obscure forgotten game characters and modern characters into its own original mythos is amazing. I mean the new issue has Bean Dynamite and Jet the Hawk duking it out with Fang/Nack the Sniper Weasal, Bark the Polar Bear, Blaze, etc. Crazy.

I have pretty much every Sonic SatAM, Underground and X episode(I refuse to ever see that goofy Adv of Sonic again)
I like and dislike all the series, but find points to like. I love some of the coloring, and the character designs of Manic and Sonia.
But some things about Underground bug me, and it feels like a more depressing verison of SatAM...with some goofy song message at the end. But dont get me wrong, I dig things about it. Sonic X is the best 'real' Sonic series, I mean it has the epic feel, speed and scope of the modern games for sure. Though, it sadly falls into some annoying kiddy anime cliches(That Techno Teacher episode in Season 1 was almost unwatchable)
SatAM I still pop in now and then, but it was low on humor and often felt a bit dark/depressing. Which I guess is a sheer contrast to the Acid trip goofyness of Adv of Sonic. I LOVE how Princess Sally is pretty much the main character, and Bunny Rabbot is one of the main characters.

If there WAS to be a new anime series, I hope itd look like this Sonic Riders intro from a couple years ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYLQjDAP8ik&feature=related

A Sonic cgi series or straight to dvd movie would rock too

One more thing, surprisingly as much as I disliked most of Toy Island's molds, I thought they did a perfect job with their Cream figure

 

[Drtooth]

I just want SOMEONE to rerelease the Sonic the Hedgehog "the Movie" OAV. I saw it online once.... The guy who played Eggman in the original Japanese actually did Japanese dubbing for Uncle Matt and Gunge on Fraggle Rock.

I was at TRU recently, and they...wait for it...

RAISED THE BLOODY PRICES of all the Sonic toys. Really... 6 bucks I have no problem with, but 7? And the Eggman set is 17 now?

Oh, and eventually I DID find Chowder toys.... in a gumball machine... at a Macy's. Managed to get most of them, though...

Other than that, I just see the same old stuff and nothing is worth paying the huge prices for. Maybe the buddy packs... Mattel expanded the Batman Brave and the Bold buddy packs to include everyone from DC, and I'd get those if they weren't 7 bucks...but other than that, Movie looking Transformers, Mattel's expensive Toy Story line, and Super Hero movie stuff is all you're going to see. I hope whenever Nickelodeon relaunches TMNT in a year they have something... but am I even going to bother toy collecting then?

Only thing that REALLY excites me is going to a convention to go toy shopping. Surprisingly I actually find Kinnikuman stuff there.

 

[beaker]

I just want SOMEONE to rerelease the Sonic the Hedgehog "the Movie" OAV. I saw it online once.... The guy who played Eggman in the original Japanese actually did Japanese dubbing for Uncle Matt and Gunge on Fraggle Rock.

I was at TRU recently, and they...wait for it...

RAISED THE BLOODY PRICES of all the Sonic toys. Really... 6 bucks I have no problem with, but 7? And the Eggman set is 17 now?

Oh, and eventually I DID find Chowder toys.... in a gumball machine... at a Macy's. Managed to get most of them, though...

Other than that, I just see the same old stuff and nothing is worth paying the huge prices for. Maybe the buddy packs... Mattel expanded the Batman Brave and the Bold buddy packs to include everyone from DC, and I'd get those if they weren't 7 bucks...but other than that, Movie looking Transformers, Mattel's expensive Toy Story line, and Super Hero movie stuff is all you're going to see. I hope whenever Nickelodeon relaunches TMNT in a year they have something... but am I even going to bother toy collecting then?

Only thing that REALLY excites me is going to a convention to go toy shopping. Surprisingly I actually find Kinnikuman stuff there.

I remember I bought the Sonic "movie" in 1999 at Electronic Boutique on vhs. I remember kind of liking it, kind of made me wish the animation from Sonic CD 1993 would have been made into a film. But compared to the gosh awful Adv of Sonic, Sonic OVA was a gosh-send. I heard Sonic "the movie" was released on dvd though, including most of the Western edits?

Yeah it stinks that Toys R Us raised the prices on all the Sonic stuff. Some of the 3" are now $9.99(like Jet the Hawk) Eggman/Metal and Big have been raised to 17 or 18. And those dinky tiny little gumball machine Sonic racers are about 5.99.
Hopefully Jazwares will fix their quality issues though. I sooo wish Resuarus' Sonic Adventure line would have gone for at least one more wave.

Ha, you mean "Bayformers"? I think thats officially what Tf'ers call the movie versions of the logo, packaging and Transformers toys. I first got big into transformers as a little kid, but to this day I've never really been able to transform em' without feeling like they were going to break. Some seem more like a rubiks cube puzzle, but Im glad they still exist. I just really miss the old designs. Man I cant stand Brave and the Bold, nor "the Batman".
How did we go from these AMAZING and dark Batman series in the 90's(Batman Animated, Batman Beyond, etc) to this faux golden age looking stuff? I wish cartoons would look like they were 2011, instead of past their prime. I mean Invader Zim, so ahead of its time look wise.

What do you think of Generation Rex? It's probably the only new kids cartoon thats intrigued me.

You always seemed like me, where you do more looking/discussing than buying. I have and will always love going to toy stores, but I don't really buy much. I've become extremely picky in my tastes. I even used to be a huuuge Japanese toy fan, but am not much into the import scene.
I could care little about TMNT's animated or toy future sadly.
The way Playmates handled the property near the end, plus it seems like the cartoon just ran out of ideas. They pretty much killed/ended the 2003 series with the Turtles Forever. Which is good, but I won't get my hopes up for Nick's TMNT. I used to get my hopes up every other year when a new Transformers cartoon series would debut...and its just been one disappointment after another.

Btw, that rocks you are able to go to cons now and then! Yeah sometimes you can make that obscure find

 

[Drtooth]

I think Brave and the Bold is special for NOT trying too hard to be the 90's series. The 90's series will always be a favorite and one of the most important cartoon series of that decade (Maybe of all time), but I think that the Chris Nolan movies are going to "Dark Batman" people out if they took that route. Plus, it gave Plastic Man a vehicle and it made Aquaman INTERESTING (albeit almost exactly like The Tick!).

Darkness is the problem with The Batman... it tried too hard to be the Chris Nolan movie in the first season, and Batman TAS subsequently. And due to that's where they got the writers from, it turned into Jackie Chan Adventures for a long time, especially season 3 with Batgirl. Though, there were some concepts I really liked... Dr. Hugo Strange being the primary antagonist of the series, leading to closure in the last episode... and I really like how they handled the Riddler in that one. Not so much the design, but I always felt that the Batman TAS version was missing something. And Robert Englund gave a stellar performance of the character.

I've always thought comic book characters can be adapted in very different ways and it still works. Look at Ninja Turtles. Suffice to say, 1980's-90's pizza cowabunga turtles vs. the darker 2003 series... but even with the comics where you have Hedden McWeenie's cartoony version and Zuli's extremely dark plots with gruesome looking Turtles. Batman's always been about different versions of the character. The 90's cartoon episode "Legends of the Dark Night" pointed that out.

As for Turtles... I am less than excited for the Nick version. The rumblings were that it was going to be CGI, like Jimmy Neutron. I hope they don't make it a pail knockoff of the 80's series. That's what I liked about 2003. But that was the direction they apparently were threatening. As for the 2003 series, they could have ended it easily after the fifth season that they forcibly hid in a cave to sell more toys. Fast Forward spent so much time establishing obvious themes that they wrote the bulk of the watchable episodes just as they were canceled (including a 2nd season that was supposed to have Space Usagi, a Triceriton Shredder and other BETTER concepts)... but the toys apparently "Didn't Sell" which I call BS on. They just wanted to move into the Movie merchandise. Sad. They were the best looking TMNT toys I ever seen. And BTTS was supposed to be transitional, but winded up being the ending because they screwed up with the over priced movie line. And still, the original season 5 SHOULD have been the series finale. The anniversary movie was good, though.

 

[beaker]

I feel like an idiot, and maybe I missed a lot of the show...but it was a HUGE shocker to me seeing Turtles Forever(thankfully the leaked uncut 80 min version) that Shredder turned out to be
an Utrom head in a mech the entire time. I was like "...wha?"

Or learning that the original Shredder is some thousand year old phantom. Again, I guess I missed a lot of episodes.

Yeah the "Ninja Tribunal" season, still confused how they lost a season. Seems a lot of money wasted, but I guess they eventually aired it.

You're right, the Fast Forward toys were the best. I didnt end up buying many of the 2KTMNT figures. I wanted Gen, but didnt like how we wasnt so much as a figure as a collapsable mess.

Hey, what is your take on Transformers Prime or the new GI Joe? I havent seen the new Joe, but I saw the Prime mini series and had mixed feelings on it. Not sure I like the TF Animated design holdover(never liked that show), but at times the cgi does seem pretty good(other times, not so good)

Also, what is your take on Generator Rex? That seems right up your alley. Also has similar animation to the great Men In Black cartoon. Also you're right about Batman needing not always be "Dark", I just greatly disliked both The Batman and Brave/Bold.
Though, props for Plastic Man being a big character...thats so random.

Oh dude, you forgot about the "lost" period of TMNT noone talks about: 1995-2002. Back when Simon Bizley did the Raphael hardcore styled series, when the TMNT were part of Jim Lee's Image comics Savage Dragon universe, the period of Next Mutation, the Japanese OVA/Metal Mutants, etc. Strangely enough I was still a fan of that time. I remember in 2001 drooling at the idea of a John Woo cgi turtles, but so not liking the idea of a Hallmark Channel live action series.

So off topic: I was thinking of my favorite faves of the action
cartoons from the 1980's and 1990's.

1980's:

COPS
Mask
Transformers
Robotech
Voltron
TMNT
Silver Hawks
Tiger Sharks
Mighty Orbots
Kid Video
Orgus 06
Tranzor Z
Bionic 6
Marshal Bravestar
Wheeled Warriors
The Real Ghostbusters
Super Mario/Zelda Cartoon
Captain N
Galaxy High


1990's:

Skysurfer Strike Force
Xmen
Batman Animated
Batman Beyond
Savage Dragon
Wildcats
Swat Kats
The Tick
Bots Master
Futurama

 

[Drtooth]

The thing about Plastic Man is that Warner Brothers had this pilot for a wacky Plastic Man series based on the current Kyle Wazzizname comics. It seems like the style of animation you wouldn't like, though, but it had Tom Kenny as Plastic Man. And WB dropped it and picked up crap like Loonatics Unleashed instead. The very Plastic Man heavy episodes of B&TB are my favorite... one even felt like another pilot. Much better than the 80's Plastic Man series, where they just turned him into Maxwell Smart and stole half his catchphrases. Even managed to give him his true sidekick, Woozie Winks, instead of that random Hawaiian guy.

As for TMNT... they "lost" the fifth season because they wanted to sell more toys and they needed a dumb gimmick. Again, which is ironic because the toys were the best TMNT ones I've ever seen, and they had this whole second series planned with President Bishop and all these other great characters that they never made because they wanted to rush into movie merchandise. And that ties in nicely to what we've been saying all along, that Movie Merchandise is all you see now.

Though, it isn't like season 5 couldn't have made toys. I REALLY wanted to get the psychic energy video game specific turtles, but those were impossible to find. Best 2k3 variants there were, but impossible to find. And I RULLY wanted a Turtle Taxi at some point.

Again, I am NOT looking forward to Nick's version unless the toys are really good. Since they're still with Playmates in that deal (I know without them, TMNT would just be a long forgotten underground comic, but it's time to look around), I'm not counting on that either.

Still, the fact the company sold the 25 anniversary short because they wanted to make horrid Terminator 4 stuff proves that it's time to drop familiarities. Sigh... they didn't even rerelease Shredder or Casey Jones.

GI JOe? I never cared for that. I dug Sigma Six for some reason, and I got a couple buddy packs Marshals was all but giving away, but I never followed or liked the show. Didn't see the new Transformers yet.

 

[beaker]

The thing about Plastic Man is that Warner Brothers had this pilot for a wacky Plastic Man series based on the current Kyle Wazzizname comics. It seems like the style of animation you wouldn't like, though, but it had Tom Kenny as Plastic Man. And WB dropped it and picked up crap like Loonatics Unleashed instead. The very Plastic Man heavy episodes of B&TB are my favorite... one even felt like another pilot. Much better than the 80's Plastic Man series, where they just turned him into Maxwell Smart and stole half his catchphrases. Even managed to give him his true sidekick, Woozie Winks, instead of that random Hawaiian guy.

As for TMNT... they "lost" the fifth season because they wanted to sell more toys and they needed a dumb gimmick. Again, which is ironic because the toys were the best TMNT ones I've ever seen, and they had this whole second series planned with President Bishop and all these other great characters that they never made because they wanted to rush into movie merchandise. And that ties in nicely to what we've been saying all along, that Movie Merchandise is all you see now.

Though, it isn't like season 5 couldn't have made toys. I REALLY wanted to get the psychic energy video game specific turtles, but those were impossible to find. Best 2k3 variants there were, but impossible to find. And I RULLY wanted a Turtle Taxi at some point.

Again, I am NOT looking forward to Nick's version unless the toys are really good. Since they're still with Playmates in that deal (I know without them, TMNT would just be a long forgotten underground comic, but it's time to look around), I'm not counting on that either.

Still, the fact the company sold the 25 anniversary short because they wanted to make horrid Terminator 4 stuff proves that it's time to drop familiarities. Sigh... they didn't even rerelease Shredder or Casey Jones.

GI JOe? I never cared for that. I dug Sigma Six for some reason, and I got a couple buddy packs Marshals was all but giving away, but I never followed or liked the show. Didn't see the new Transformers yet.

I wasnt allowed to watch GI Joe because my parents believed it to be pro war propaganda. Which I heavily agree with, but some of the animation reminds me of the quasi anime style of G1 transformers. I LOVVVVED Sigma Six(I have the dvds), and I liked the GI Joe Resolute anime film.
Gi Joe Renegades in my opinion is amazing, finally saw the show. Great animation, flow, style. I think you'd like it.
Heres the first episodes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-92mxxBh4U
Reminds me of that Peter Chung/Men In Black/Fantastic Four style

Wow, sounds like you really followed the whole of the TMNT2003 series. 2003 and 2007 were my fave turtle periods in recent time. 2003 for the amazing Dreamwave comic, the gba game and the first season. And 2007 for the movie, which I feel is the second best film right under the first one.

If the Nick show is cgi and can be akin to the quality of cgi in the 2007 film, Im all for it! Though Id also love the animation seen on GI Joe Renegades.