Muppets Most Wanted: What went wrong?

[CensoredAlso]

The only difference is how it's presented to the audience - establishing non-identical characters as "identical" through dialogue (indicating that the audience just needs to suspend disbelief for the rest of the movie), or having them look similar-but-distinguishable and just making the characters seem stupid for not working it out.

That's a good point--suspending disbelief vs diminishing the characters.

and the whole amnesia scene was depressing and unenjoyable to watch. I've seen the movie twice, both times thought it started off okay, but was quite disappointed by the end.

I'd be disappointed if he stayed having amnesia by the end.

MTM is a different kind of Muppet movie, no doubt. If you stumbled upon it on TV, in a random non-Muppets scene, you'd probably think it was a grown up '80s comedy. I appreciate that they had enough faith in the Muppets to have them pull off both the gentle social commentary and angsty drama. They were never in an environment that felt that real in tone again. You know, Jenny talks to Kermit like he's a real person. Whereas Tina Fey hams it up like a cartoon villain (or a latter day SNL cast member ).

 

[Ladywarrior]

I still say the muppets acted a bit too selfish in MMW. I mean... they all seemed so focused on what THEY wanted, not on what people would enjoy seeing. I mean a four hour drum solo? sending REAL bulls through a theater? Now if the bulls had been muppet bulls it would have been really funny. I know gonzo is a maniac sometimes but it felt... weird.
and I know the mayhem sometimes does weird things but I can't really picture them wanting animal to have a four hour drum roll. I am pretty sure one of them would talk animal out of it.

 

[minor muppetz]

Regarding the Kermit/Constantine thing....

Characters think Kermit is Constantine when he appears to have the mole, while they think Constantine is Kermit when the mole is covered. Most characters don't see a resemblance otherwise. I wonder how Constantine figured out the resemblance (or was it Dominique who figured it out?). Even at the wedding, when the Muppets see two Kermit's, they don't seem to know the other Kermit is Constantine until he removes the make-up to them.

But Nadya seems aware. Maybe it's because of all her Kermit pictures, but when Kermit is in the gulag, she asks him if he's not Constantine why he has the mole. As if Constantine is the only frog who can have a mole. And what if Kermit suddenly grew an actual mole on his face?

Also, when Sam and Jean Pierre find Kermit and Fozzie at the wedding, Sam identifies Kermit as Constantine, even though his fake mole was covered in make-up. He didn't seem to think Constantine was Kermit when he questioned him earlier, didn't seem to be aware of the resemblance (and never talks about Constantine beforehand), and of course had no idea Constantine was involved with the Muppets.

Also interesting how we never officially hear whether Dominic's last name really is pronounced Badguy or Badghee. When Nadya reads a newspaper article on the Muppets and mentions Dominic, she pronounces it as it's written. Wouldn't it have been funny if she had pronounced the last name the way he had told the Muppets it was, or if Kermit "corrected" her. Also, how come Constantine wasn't in that group picture, while Dominic was? Dominic was just the tour manager, he didn't perform on stage during the tour, and everyone thought Constantine was Kermit, so surely he should have been there.

 

[jvcarroll]

I have no idea what Muppet Babies ever did to you, but to each their own, lol.

They didn't "make my dreams come true." LOL!

But seriously, there's no excuse for such poor animation or for the shrill voice artistry.

 

[CensoredAlso]

But seriously, there's no excuse for such poor animation or for the shrill voice artistry.

Well I won't make excuses for the animation (apart from, "Duh, it was the '80s!" ). Ironically though, my father, of all people, was always praising the show for its episodes that paid tribute to classic art and animation, lol.

 

[jvcarroll]

Well I won't make excuses for the animation (apart from, "Duh, it was the '80s!" ). Ironically though, my father, of all people, was always praising the show for its episodes that paid tribute to classic art and animation, lol.

I won't give the animation a pass considering higher quality 80's programs like Alvin and the Chipmunks, The Smufs and Ducktales. However, I commend their blending of film footage, the original songs and the initial character design. But the program really watered down the brand and is a key reason why TM was necessary.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I won't give the animation a pass considering higher quality 80's programs like Alvin and the Chipmunks, The Smufs and Ducktales.

Technically Alvin and Ducktales did have better motion. I'm not sold on Smurfs though. Character wise they were all great shows, of course.

But the program really watered down the brand and is a key reason why TM was necessary.

There we will never agree, lol. MFS is why TM was necessary.

 

[jvcarroll]

Technically Alvin and Ducktales did have better motion. I'm not sold on Smurfs though. Character wise they were all great shows, of course.



There we will never agree, lol. MFS is why TM was necessary.

I guess one could debate anything, but that's a fact in the world of product development, branding and marketing and that's what drives the entertainment industry.

 

[Drtooth]

Can I just say this discussion makes me long for another bad MWOO style classic retelling? At least we can be in agreement about what makes a movie suck then.

Seriously, I don't want to say some of the complaints sound...off... but I'm getting hints of foolish nitpickiness. Yeah, I get the whole "this is the worstest movie ever because the Muppets were stupid/selfish" bit... however

Yas! And especially Lips, him especially desurves more roles! I see that only some members of the band only had little roles in the movie, which were Dr.Teeth Floyd Janice and Animal. Zoot and Lips need a much more bigger role, as well as their band mates.

I HATE the whole "the movie was bad because my favorite character wasn't in it" logic. That just breaks my brain. Lips's biggest role ever was in GMC and he was never seen again except for a brief cameo in the Disney World special. We then went 3 whole movies where the entire band was shoved into the background. One they didn't even perform. Their spot in VMX was cut because a bunch of busybodies whined about Snoop Dogg who has since been in a certain kid's movie as a talking snail. One of the few good things I can say about MWOO was that they had 2 numbers. Like the two only measurably decent songs in that musical crapfest. they didn't really sing much but they were at least there.

I agree. Sucks they couldn't fit any EM numbers in the last 2 films, but at least they weren't reduced to one word cameos. And remember, we loved those one word cameos. They were the greatest thing to us back before we got permanent recasts.

Seriously. Bring on the Simpsons cast off writer scribed, stunt casted human, overused story retelling that will excite and entertain no one. That's certainly what we would have gotten. Hip and Edgy Muppets far more disrespectful than the ones used in a parody cliche plot.

 

[minor muppetz]

I HATE the whole "the movie was bad because my favorite character wasn't in it" logic. That just breaks my brain. Lips's biggest role ever was in GMC and he was never seen again except for a brief cameo in the Disney World special.

Between GMC and the Disney World special, Lips was also seen in MTM (at the wedding), the 30th anniversary special, and A Muppet Family Christmas (where his screen time almost equals that of GMC). Two out of three of those had him as a member of the Electric Mayhem.