Muppets Most Wanted: What went wrong?

[Oscarfan]

Between GMC and the Disney World special, Lips was also seen in MTM (at the wedding), the 30th anniversary special, and A Muppet Family Christmas (where his screen time almost equals that of GMC). Two out of three of those had him as a member of the Electric Mayhem.

You're missing his point.

 

[Drtooth]

Exactly. Lips was never prominent. I could put out a big long list of how many tertiary characters were actually seen in movies and to what capacity. Wait, wasn't Lips actually in MMW?

Then, there's Robin who was only in 4 movies (including MMW), and the only time he wasn't a one-two line cameo was when he played Tiny Tim.

The problem is, the Muppets are loads and loads of characters. Numbers work better over the course of a TV series than in 80-90 minutes of film. That's when a smaller group works best. TMM essentially had only Kermit, Fozzie, Piggy, Gonzo and Camilla, The Electric Mayhem and Scooter, Rowlf, a very small part with Sweetums, and then Bunsen and Beaker at the end of the movie for a few minutes. But mostly Kermit, Fozzie and Piggy. Everyone else had small cameos in the theater watching the film. GMC had many more characters, and somehow they made the bigger numbers fit (but there are still a lot of faces missing). MTM went back to a smaller core cast of the main 4, the band, and Scooter (minus the new characters) with a couple others as cameos.

And while I applaud both TM and MMW for putting as many Muppets as possible into the film, but they do come just short of being too busy. It may not seem like they had restraint, but they did. Just barely.

 

[CensoredAlso]

The lack of characters wasn't my problem. Just lack of characterizations.

 

[minor muppetz]

You're missing his point.

He had said that Lips wasn't seen again after Caper until Walt Disney World. I was correcting him.

When it comes to MTM having a smaller group of main characters involved, I'm starting to wonder if that was due to GMC not doing as well as TMM at the box office. It's been said that because of that, MTM had less of the kind of humor found in GMC and more heart, I've read that Frank Oz decided on that, but I wonder if that made him decide to include less characters in the main cast. I wonder how many Muppets were among the main cast in The Cheapest Muppet Movie script.

In the movies, the Muppets are normally the focus of their scenes. When characters just appear in the background, it's in certain group scenes or scenes that obviously have big crowds of Muppets. Most of the movies had places like these. TMM had the screening room (and the finale), GMC had the Happiness Hotel (and most of the residents joined the Muppets on stopping the enemies, in addition to riding bikes and falling off the plane), MTM had Manhattan Melodies, and MFS had the boarding house (as well as the beach, but unfortunately the human extras outnumber the Muppets there). MCC and MTI both took place in worlds where Muppets were seen among the streets, along with human extras. Meanwhile, the last two movies are like a hybrid of TMS and the movies, with the theater and world tour being used to allow for a lot of characters to appear throughout.

 

[Drtooth]

The lack of characters wasn't my problem. Just lack of characterizations.

If that's the case, they haven't been written right for years.

 

[Ladywarrior]

If that's the case, they haven't been written right for years.

Well maybe they haven't. I wouldn't know since dr. teeth hasn't had a major speaking role since jim henson was alive.

 

[Drtooth]

So the litmus test for you is not bothering to see the difference in quality between the first 3 films and the subsequent 3 after Henson. It takes a long time to recast a character. Not as long now, since even SW thinks of the future and has understudies. The fandom rejoiced in MFS when Dr. Teeth said "Shalom," his first line since Henson's death. Now they have full lines. Just not full songs.

I'd say that MCC and MTI managed to have some subtly towards Kermit, and he was pretty much himself playing someone else in those films, Kermit really didn't get back his Kermitness until VMX. Hasn't quite lost it since. If anything, TM and MMW got him right, even with TM's lost all confidence Kermit.

I really do like MFS, I really do. But I'll see you're "the Muppets were stupid and selfish in MMW" and raise you MFS Kermit.

One of his closest friends is feeling horribly depressed and lonely. He seems much more concerned about painting the house than Gonzo. His romantic interest has a job at a strangely specific news show. Does he rally all the other Muppets to come back during the day when they randomly disappeared to support Piggy's new career? Nope. House painting and playing cards. Sure, he goes to rescue Gonzo at the end, but without zest or urgency. He can't even be bothered to do the film's commentary. Now, I know it's a Gonzo based film where newer characters had their time to shine. But you could do the entire film without Kermit and it would have been exactly the same.

That's head canon now. Gonzo knew Constantine wasn't Kermit, but was passive aggressively ignoring it because of the lack of sympathy Kermit had when he was going through a rough patch.

 

[CensoredAlso]

If that's the case, they haven't been written right for years.

And I've pointed that out for years.

One of his closest friends is feeling horribly depressed and lonely. He seems much more concerned about painting the house than Gonzo....That's head canon now. Gonzo knew Constantine wasn't Kermit, but was passive aggressively ignoring it because of the lack of sympathy Kermit had when he was going through a rough patch.

Lol, that works!

 

[minor muppetz]

The fandom rejoiced in MFS when Dr. Teeth said "Shalom," his first line since Henson's death.

At the time I thought that was his first line since then, but then I found out that John Kennedy recorded his voice for Days of Swine and Roses (though he didn't get much dialogue there), and I read that Dave Goelz performed him in the Muppet Treasure Island CD-rom. I assume he talked in that, but don't know for sure (I've only watched bits and pieces of it on YouTube).

 

[Ladywarrior]

I don't have much of a problem with voice acting well floyds new voice makes him sound like an old man but everyone else seems pretty close to their old voices. That's one thing I don't have a complaint about in MMW.