Muppets Most Wanted: What went wrong?

[jvcarroll]

Well what makes you think I'm comparing MMW to TM? I honestly haven't watched either film since the theatre. When I compare a new Muppets movie, it's generally to the original three. Is that fair?....Nope!*


*(Red Letter Media reference)

MMW is the closest film to the first three. Actually, I think it's even closer to the spirit of the classic Muppets (or at least classic TMS) than MTM. That's completely fair.

 

[Dominicboo1]

MMW is the closest film to the first three. Actually, I think it's even closer to the spirit of the classic Muppets (or at least classic TMS) than MTM. That's completely fair.

I have to agree. Muppets Take Manhattan just isn't as crazy for me. Muppets Most Wanted also in.my opinion balances the two storylines of the Gulag and World Tour/Caper. I think Muppets Take Manhattan could have been even better if we saw more scenes from the rest of the Muppets. Some just had too promising ideas for only one scene especially Rowlf.

 

[Drtooth]

Now that being said I love Animal in Most Wanted, but I also found it troubling how the writers thought that the most wildest and craziest member of the Muppets would know something is wrong. For me the movie had it's good points, I thought Gonzo was well written for, and I love Rizzo and Robin's cameo.

Animal is the most feral and dog like. I don't see why there's an issue there. Rowlf's too civilized a dog to get that role.

I'm going to say this and leave it there... I've seen a LOT of the evil doppelganger cliche and it's cousin the body switch episode. There is not once where it was played straight that it's abused worse than here. Not once. The cliche, even in parody plays out the same way. There's always one guy that knows something's up, but no one believes him. If there's a pet animal in the group, they always randomly start barking and "acting weird" all the sudden and no one's got their heads out of their butts to know something is wrong until its too late. And the characters when playing it straight are far dumber than when it's an ironic tongue in cheek.

The key point is, yes the Muppets were self centered and selfish. You ever have a bad fight with family or friends and it doesn't get passive aggressive for a while after? Again, seeing this cliche played out hundreds of times, they added a nice twist here. I have never seen an evil counterpart with such a brilliant plan to play the field, giving everybody whatever they want to shut them up and keep them oblivious. I fail to see why this is the wallbanger of the franchise. If they're acting out of character, remember. They said themselves this is a movie. It's not canon. Plot happens at the expense of logic.

I do not understand this false filter employed by some fans. While I appreciate what TM did for the brand, I never want to see the gang that lobotomized again. It was a good little film where the Muppets took a back seat for most of the ride and their personalities did too.

I feel the Muppets were lobotomized worse than that in previous films. MCC and MTI can at least have the excuse that they're just playing other characters. Now, I like MFS overall, but Piggy's a one dimensional caricature of herself, Kermit's just... there, and yeah. Fozzie seem a little dim in MMW? That's been going on since MTI. That's excuse was he's playing a character. What's his excuse for saying "Mommy always says wash your hands after going the bathroom" and picking his nose? Fozzie's booger mining is so incredibly far removed from the character, yet it's part of a better gag anyway. Still... My personal favorite is Gonzo. MFS, yeah, he was kinda bummed because he was the only Gonzo. Forgivable. VMX, yeah, he was bummed in the alternate universe because he was misunderstood. In LTS he breaks a promise to mail a letter and is devastated. Like, worse than being the only one of his species depressed. If that continued, I'd be surprised that Gonzo doesn't openly weep in the next consecutive 3 movies after. The first 2 instances are characterization marching on. That instance was just failing to get the subtlety of the character's low moments.

And yes, I'm going to go to MWOO again. I'm hard on that movie because it's everything that was easily forgiven in previous post Henson films smashed together as one and totally what we would have seen as the Muppet vision had it not been for the TM and MMW crew. I reiterate. Piggy was disgusting in that film. I love dark humor as much as the next person, but Piggy spent the movie as the Wicked Witch making a snuff film and singing an entire song about how she's going to kill Dorothy (sadly, the best song in the film). Played for laughs in a Muppet movie. They managed to make her even darker than Doc "willing to kill Kermit to use him as a mascot" Hopper from the first film. If MMW is disrespectful, her role in MWOO alone is the worst thing they've ever done to themselves. OH. And MWOO was written by the staff writers who supposedly have a handle on the Muppets, so...

Seems like fans would have perfered another bad retelling of an overused classic story with stunt cast humans that take on 90% of the film than something that's an actual Muppety movie.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I think it's even closer to the spirit of the classic Muppets (or at least classic TMS) than MTM.

As a fan of MTM since age 0, we will have to agree to disagree there, lol.

I do agree that MTM is a very different tone from TMS. It's more about sentimentality than cynical show biz humor. I just don't see much resemblance between TMS and MMW (or TM).

In TMS they all kinda know the show is bad, but they're proud of it anyway. It's the embodiment of the "What, and give up show business?!" joke.

In MMW, the joke is on them not knowing how unpopular they there or even why. That's not funny, that's embarrassing.

And frankly, I don't want to see a meta Muppets movie. In the original three films, they put themselves into artificial, dramatized situations. In TMM, they're playing fictionalized versions of their earlier selves. In GMC, they're playing completely fictional characters in an old fashioned Caper heist. In MTM, they're recent college graduates. It all hearkened back to the old days when Laurel & Hardy or the Marx Brothers were always playing different characters in different situations, just with the same personalities. But you didn't see a Laurel & Hardy movie where they sat around wondering if they're popular or not.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I think Muppets Take Manhattan could have been even better if we saw more scenes from the rest of the Muppets.

That's the whole point of the film though. They separate the Muppets, and we the audience feel the pain Kermit is going through along with him. And the moments we do get with the other Muppets mean that much more. The scene with Scooter's letter ("Have you sold the show yet? Have you heard from the gang?") with the "Together Again" score playing over it, is probably my favorite moment in the entire film. I wouldn't trade that even if it meant Scooter would be in the movie from start to finish.

 

[Dominicboo1]

That's the whole point of the film though. They separate the Muppets, and we the audience feel the pain Kermit is going through along with him. And the moments we do get with tGoodhe other Muppets mean that much more. The scene with Scooter's letter ("Have you sold the show yet? Have you heard from the gang?") with the "Together Again" score playing over it, is probably my favorite moment in the entire film. I wouldn't trade that even if it meant Scooter would be in the movie


from start to finish.

Good point. The letters MAY work best as comic relief

 

[Ladywarrior]

Most Wanted is NOTHING like the original film. I watched the three originals BEFORE I watched most wanted so don't go telling me it's faithful to the originals. It's totally NOT! The film was garbage and nothing about it was appealing. Feel free to argue with me about it all you want but it won't change my mind.
Plus the title itself is dishonest. I was expecting something much different than what they gave us.
and just for the record "Rainbow Connection" is NOT a cheesy song and when Constantine mocked it I wanted to drop kick him through the wall.

 

[Dominicboo1]

Most Wanted is NOTHING like the original film. I watched the three originals BEFORE I watched most wanted so don't go telling me it's faithful to the originals. It's totally NOT! The film was garbage and nothing about it was appealing. Feel free to argue with me about it all you want but it won't change my mind.
Plus the title itself is dishonest. I was expecting something much different than what they gave us.

Gee I think it was meant to be like "America's Most Wanted"

 

[CensoredAlso]

and just for the record "Rainbow Connection" is NOT a cheesy song and when Constantine mocked it I wanted to drop kick him through the wall.

If you've ever seen the Muppets' Frog Prince, I'd give that moment a "polite chuckles."

Giving Constantine an over the top accent is fine. But they should have made him able to fake the Kermit voice a bit more and just have some mistakes occasionally slip through. The fact that he's not even trying and still the Muppets are fooled...that's funny on Scooby Doo, not the Muppets, lol.

 

[Ladywarrior]

Gee I think it was meant to be like "America's Most Wanted"

Except for the fact that America's Most Wanted talks about wanted criminals recounts what they did and tells people to call in if they saw him. I'm surprised people didn't see KERMIT and instantly think he was the other guy even without the mole. I mean how many people can see a mole from far away.
This plot has been done much better on shows like Green Acres and even The Monkees.