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Kermit and Miss Piggy Officially Split!

DarthGonzo

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In the old days, they were actually on an even playing field and there was more of a give-and-take between the two of them, where even though Kermit often got intimidated by Piggy, he wasn't totally afraid of her, not really sad or emotionally-brutalized and not always hesitant to state his personal opinions about her and their relationship, even if he expressed his views with sarcastic remarks that led to him getting beat up by the pig.
Think back to Kermit firing Piggy on The Muppet Show, or their argument in Great Muppet Caper. Kermit had no problem talking down to Piggy ("I know all about your career, pig!") and could push her into an emotional breakdown if he really wanted to. That side of Kermit has been gone for a very long time, and I really miss it.
 

Drtooth

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So... I'm confused. We're upset because a loving fictional relationship broke up and now we're upset that the relationship currently isn't abusive enough?

Long story short, the 80's saw the relationship becoming much more loving and less disrespectful after MTM. Coincidentally, the same time Jim was being far more experimental and essentially turning the Muppets into more kiddy fare (those Play-a-long videos), while focusing more on things like Labyrinth and Dark Crystal for older audiences. While I never thought he would abandon the cold, it seems that he wanted to close off that sort of relationship with the characters (at least until the Pig of the 90's thing that never happened). Meanwhile, the only place to actually see the show's complicated, semi-abusive Kermit Piggy relationship was...and take note of this oddity... Muppet Babies!

As a result some fans have the headcanon of Kermit and Piggy being married off in MTM. And for shame on the editor who cut that revelation out of TM where they broke up because of a fight over that. That's the kind of relationship everyone claims to be missing (but more on that later).

Now with the 90's and the relaunch, Piggy was pretty much barely there (and for the sake of the joke, Fozzie). We got a loving relationship in MCC (because they had to, they were playing characters), a complicated one in backstory in MTI (for the sake of putting the Pig into a movie that would otherwise not have fit her in if it went as close to the book as MCC was), NO relationship in MFS (and for that matter, due to Frank's lack of availability, barely present in MT) , back to the classic complicated dynamic in VMX (one of the best things about the film, honestly), then the "fans love to see them yell and karate each other" public appearances, then no room for a logical relationship in MWOZ, Disney flip flopping the heck out of it in personal appearances, some small relationship friction that gets easily resolved in LTS, and then we finally get some complexity (and in the case of the first one, maturity) in the two new movies...even though they chopped off the call back to MTM because 100 minute running time. Now this wrinkle.

Overall, face it. From a standpoint the "will they or won't they" was a nice aspect for the TV show, but after a while, it would have gotten repetitive. yet marrying them off would be boring. That's why the post-Jim, Pre-Disney Kermit/Piggy era was marred by Flanderization. They didn't get what made the TV show abusive relationship special, and they just tried a pallid copy of it. Disney started out that way, sure, but then it seems they realized the fans didn't actually like that so much, then tried to make them an official couple again, just before the announcement of the TV Show, where this is a major plot point.
 

Duke Remington

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So... I'm confused. We're upset because a loving fictional relationship broke up and now we're upset that the relationship currently isn't abusive enough?

Long story short, the 80's saw the relationship becoming much more loving and less disrespectful after MTM. Coincidentally, the same time Jim was being far more experimental and essentially turning the Muppets into more kiddy fare (those Play-a-long videos), while focusing more on things like Labyrinth and Dark Crystal for older audiences. While I never thought he would abandon the cold, it seems that he wanted to close off that sort of relationship with the characters (at least until the Pig of the 90's thing that never happened). Meanwhile, the only place to actually see the show's complicated, semi-abusive Kermit Piggy relationship was...and take note of this oddity... Muppet Babies!

As a result some fans have the headcanon of Kermit and Piggy being married off in MTM. And for shame on the editor who cut that revelation out of TM where they broke up because of a fight over that. That's the kind of relationship everyone claims to be missing (but more on that later).

Now with the 90's and the relaunch, Piggy was pretty much barely there (and for the sake of the joke, Fozzie). We got a loving relationship in MCC (because they had to, they were playing characters), a complicated one in backstory in MTI (for the sake of putting the Pig into a movie that would otherwise not have fit her in if it went as close to the book as MCC was), NO relationship in MFS (and for that matter, due to Frank's lack of availability, barely present in MT) , back to the classic complicated dynamic in VMX (one of the best things about the film, honestly), then the "fans love to see them yell and karate each other" public appearances, then no room for a logical relationship in MWOZ, Disney flip flopping the heck out of it in personal appearances, some small relationship friction that gets easily resolved in LTS, and then we finally get some complexity (and in the case of the first one, maturity) in the two new movies...even though they chopped off the call back to MTM because 100 minute running time. Now this wrinkle.

Overall, face it. From a standpoint the "will they or won't they" was a nice aspect for the TV show, but after a while, it would have gotten repetitive. yet marrying them off would be boring. That's why the post-Jim, Pre-Disney Kermit/Piggy era was marred by Flanderization. They didn't get what made the TV show abusive relationship special, and they just tried a pallid copy of it. Disney started out that way, sure, but then it seems they realized the fans didn't actually like that so much, then tried to make them an official couple again, just before the announcement of the TV Show, where this is a major plot point.
But they still continued with the Flanderized versions of Piggy (ie: Piggy the possessive and overly-jealous and violent psychopath) and Kermit (ie: Kermit the constantly-cowering and backbone-lacking wuss) and their relationship in interviews, appearances, etc. done during the time of the two recent theatrical films' releases.
 

Duke Remington

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Think back to Kermit firing Piggy on The Muppet Show, or their argument in Great Muppet Caper. Kermit had no problem talking down to Piggy ("I know all about your career, pig!") and could push her into an emotional breakdown if he really wanted to. That side of Kermit has been gone for a very long time, and I really miss it.
Me too. Here's to hoping that the new show (and future interviews and appearances) will bring that aspect back to his character. I'm tired of him being a constant Piggy-fearing wuss.
 

Duke Remington

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P.S.: I just remembered another reason behind my hatred--the fact that Kermit and Piggy have made waaaaaaaay too many of those appearances and interviews, which further increases the whole getting tired, irritating and overexposed.

They should have Kermit and Piggy not do such appearances and interviews for a good long while and instead have the other Muppets do such things in their place.
 

MuppetGuy75

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I don't care what anybody says.... I have full faith that the frog & pig will get back together. :smile:
 

Muppet Master

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The way Kermit and Miss Piggy acted in TMS was great, Kermit was mostly annoyed of her, Miss Piggy wanted his affection, occasionaly Kermit was jealous when she flirted with the male guest stars, and Miss Piggy was occasionaly jealous when Kermit flirted with the female guest stars, while Kermit likes Annie Sue, and Miss Piggy hates her. The sad part is that Annie Sue never got much to do besides a few episodes in the third season, she never did much. That is sad since she is basically what they are trying to do with Denise besides the fact that Kermit is in an actual relationship with her in the show. The movies made a different relationship for them, TMM is fine, because that was when they first met, Kermit liked Miss Piggy, I could see that after a while though he got tired of her yelling and bossy attitude which led to more of an abusive relationship in TMS which takes place after the movie. GMC was a movie where each muppet played a different character, so no real relationship or anything. MTM is way too out of cannon as they are now in college, but I will assume that it is after TMS, and Miss Piggy wants to marry Kermit, but Kermit does not really. I could assume that Kermit was really mad at Miss Piggy, and that led to the nothing happening in MFS, though mostly Miss Piggy was the one who liked Kermit, but the relationship turned into mostly nothing until TM came, and the new show, but mostly it was Miss Piggy who liked Kermit, which led to the breakup publicity thing that seems to be working.
 

Duke Remington

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Listen to this discussion from 1:09:23: to 1:30:18: http://muppetcast.com/show-260/. @Duke Remington, you'll appreciate this cause, they agree with you that Piggy isn't who she used to be.
I really appreciate that. Believe me.

Somebody needs to tell Steve Whitmire and Eric Jacobson to do away with the Flanderized versions of Kermit, Piggy and their dynamics that they've goaded into doing for much too long and get the two characters back on an even playing field like they were in the Muppet Show days (Piggy's mean-spirited trait not being overdone, Kermit not being a complete wuss and having the courage to stand up to Piggy and yell at her, tell her off, chew her out, put her in her place, talk down to her, threaten to fire her, etc.).

I really want to hope that Bill Prady, et al will be doing exactly that in the new series.

But I also do wonder if maybe Prady, et al. are already aware of the Flanderizations and used that as part of why they had Kermit and Piggy break up for the new show.
 

Drtooth

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If anyone's wondering about the kind of tension this new relationship can cause, check out this promo.

I'd say there's a lot of passive aggressiveness to look forward to.
 

LaRanaRene

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If anyone's wondering about the kind of tension this new relationship can cause, check out this promo.

I'd say there's a lot of passive aggressiveness to look forward to.
Steve sounds kinda like Rowlf at 3:54. I've always wondered what his Rowlf impression would sound like.
 
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