Jim Hill on Saban, the Muppets, and Disney

[danielromens]

Actually I don't think he's wrong when he says people would rather watch Sully, but I don't think he's right either. I also don't think Dr. Tooth behaved when someone states and opinion he disagrees with. But check the numbers and see for yourself who did better in the box office, Kermit and Gonzo or Mike and Sully?

There you go. It doesn't mean the one is instantly more liked, but it shows you what's pop right now. The Muppets are not. Most of the buzz their getting now isn't because of the shows the characters are in, but a toy line. Yes it's helping, but I don't think it will fill a theatre. However every picture Pixar has done has been gold. Not because the characters are more likable, but because the writing is a h*** of a lot better than the stuff Henson has been doing. At Pixar the story is the most important and they are on top of their game.

That's why they don't need Disney anymore. Dis is doing nothing but sucking up profits for work they have nothing to do with outside of funding. But thankfully not for long. I see the tyranny of the mouse coming to a close. Why would Pixar want to stay anyway. Disney has made Dinosaur without them and is talking to the Shrek folks. thats just not good business.

The muppets better step it up if they want to retain the attention of the fickle viewing audience.

 

[GWGumby]

You hit a very valid point that story is most important. It doesn't matter what medium a production is in, it's the story that matters. Also, a true understanding of one's audience. I think that's been the biggest problem with the Muppets in the past 10 years is that they've blurred too much with their Sesame Street counterparts. I think the figures are a step in the right direction in making Muppets appeal to older fans. Bringing some edge back to their humor and not just marketing them to kids could really help rediscover a wider audience.

By the way, I think it's fairly understood that when I say "edge" I do not mean "Crank Yankers." I mean sophisticated wackiness.

 

[beaker]

Heh, I guess Murgatoad didnt make it to Mupptefest, where he would have been proven beyond wrong.

 

[murgatoad]

Originally posted by GWGumby
Actually, now they have porn, mindless reality shows, and muppets all-in-one! It's called Crank Yankers.

I think Murgatoad has a few valid points, but loses most credibility when saying people want to see Sully over a Muppet. That's just plain wrong. I want to see hand animated cartoons like Lilo & Stitch, stop-motion animation like Nightmare Before Christmas and Wallace & Gromit, and paper cut-outs like South Park (which admittedly is actually CGI), puppets, dummies and marionettes just as much as I want to see CGI animation.

New technologies do not make former ones obsolete, they merely offer alternatives. The illusion of life is what we enjoy in all animation whether puppet or drawing or computer pixels.

You make valid points, I must admit, but I still insist that MOST people prefer watching a CGI-generated Sully over a Muppet just like most folks prefer to drive a Jaguar over a Model T. And it's not just technical prowess that makes Sully superior; it's the fact that the character was well-written for and well-performed by his "handlers". Something Gonzo and co. can scarcely claim about THEIR handlers since ol' Uncle Jim died. IMO.

 

[murgatoad]

Originally posted by danielromens
Actually I don't think he's wrong when he says people would rather watch Sully, but I don't think he's right either. I also don't think Dr. Tooth behaved when someone states and opinion he disagrees with. But check the numbers and see for yourself who did better in the box office, Kermit and Gonzo or Mike and Sully?

There you go. It doesn't mean the one is instantly more liked, but it shows you what's pop right now. The Muppets are not. Most of the buzz their getting now isn't because of the shows the characters are in, but a toy line. Yes it's helping, but I don't think it will fill a theatre. However every picture Pixar has done has been gold. Not because the characters are more likable, but because the writing is a h*** of a lot better than the stuff Henson has been doing. At Pixar the story is the most important and they are on top of their game.

That's why they don't need Disney anymore. Dis is doing nothing but sucking up profits for work they have nothing to do with outside of funding. But thankfully not for long. I see the tyranny of the mouse coming to a close. Why would Pixar want to stay anyway. Disney has made Dinosaur without them and is talking to the Shrek folks. thats just not good business.

The muppets better step it up if they want to retain the attention of the fickle viewing audience.

FWIW I totally agree with you about how Disney is treating Pixar - like SH*T! But then I thought Disney was on its way down the tubes when Eisner, in all his arrogance, let Katzenberg go. I know Jeffy boy can play rough, but his grasp of what makes a good Disney animated film is what really brought back Disney's animation division. His loss is still being felt IMO. As for Pixar - Disney is essentially trying to get a free "Monsters" sequel out of them, from what I understand. Good for Pixar for standing up for its rights.

And also FWIW, I think the Muppet Christmas movie at NBC has a chance of doing well. Nostalgia is big right now. I don't necessarily think that a successful TV movie will engender a comeback - but it couldn't hurt.

 

[kansasteen14]

Originally posted by GWGumby
Actually, now they have porn, mindless reality shows, and muppets all-in-one! It's called Crank Yankers.

I think Murgatoad has a few valid points, but loses most credibility when saying people want to see Sully over a Muppet. That's just plain wrong. I want to see hand animated cartoons like Lilo & Stitch, stop-motion animation like Nightmare Before Christmas and Wallace & Gromit, and paper cut-outs like South Park (which admittedly is actually CGI), puppets, dummies and marionettes just as much as I want to see CGI animation.

New technologies do not make former ones obsolete, they merely offer alternatives. The illusion of life is what we enjoy in all animation whether puppet or drawing or computer pixels.

have to say I agree with you 100 percent.also I would like Dis to buy the muppets.

 

[Drtooth]

I still could not disagree more! CGI will NEVER replace Muppets, Puppetry, or animatronics, such as they way it will not replace human actors in a movie. Sure, Shrek and Monsters Inc were well done, but also well written. Look at all the crappy, dirivitive CGI shows on TV. Cubix, Max Steel, and Action Man in particular. They are just..just unbearably awful!!! Mindless claptrap that uses the animation to sell the show (and the crummy toys they make). Reboot was one of the few likable shows made from CGI!!!

And bvesides, the Muppets are NOT fading from popularity. Remember the Simpsons when they first came out? Every where you'd go, there'd be Bart T-shirts, toys videogames, etc. Then in like 1992 or 3, they (though still on the air) bottomed out merchandise wise. Nothing! No toys, just a few crummy video games and so on. Now look! Comic Books, comic strips, action figures, Burger King promos..the works. Now we are hit with great stuff like Muppet action figures, bobble heads, videos, a christmas special, a fox show, and even talks of a comic book!

It's just a Muppet Dry spell. We'll see plenty of them in months, years, decades to come!

 

[Luke]

Thats right - just look at whats happened to ALF now - even more peculiar. Nothing for ten years almost and now a 3 year advertising deal, soon to come prime time series, DVD's, loads of merchandise. All the retro stuff is getting so popular right now.

 

[Beauregard]

OK. All you people every where. Beau is about to speak.

I want to start by addressing you all and saying that each and every one of you has a point.

Murgatoad:
Although I disagree that the Muppets have been badly Performed since "Ol' Uncle Jim" died. The puppeting in KSY was the only thing that almost saved it, the puppets were rubish the script was dreadful, and the actors were well some words do come to mind.

Which moves me on to say that yes I agree that the Muppet script writers have somhow gone downhill. Compare Muppet Treasure Island to KSY.

The maiprolemI think with the muppets now is that, because of the Hoops, Mopotops Shop, andBeari the Big Blue House which are doing well for childrenn the last film was aimedat children.Where as Toy Story and Mosters were writen for adults to enjoy as well as kids.

So what I'd say to JHC is that they should bull up their socks, get some better writers and story lines and aim their films back at an older geeration where they belong.

And now Beau has spoken ---------- Naghy

 

[BoyRaisin2]

EM.TV does not own KirchMedia (in case didn't say that already). They are two different companies. I know Saban is interested in them too, but I seriously doubt that has anything to do with the Henson sale.

Unless someone knows different.